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MAROTH4MVP

Detroit Lions 2018 Free Agency

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I don’t think there is any doubt that the lions will franchise ansah. They have the cap space and you can’t just walk away from a talent like that. It would be a different story if there was a good replacement for him available in free agency, but there isn’t. And spreading the money around on lesser players isn’t going to make the team better. 

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From the outside it seems like a no-brainer to franchise Ansah; despite the injury history, he is the only DL the Lions have who presents a matchup problem to opposing offensive lines.

On the other hand, it is not the “Patriot way” to commit big money to pass rushers. Quinn and Patricia may prefer to spend that money on a guard and take a flyer (or two) on a CB like Kyle Fuller, then focus on the middle of the line with Vea or Payne in Round 1, and whatever defensive piece falls to them in Round 2, picking up a RB in Round 3.

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Josh Sitton had his option declined by the Bears, PFF still rated him as a top 5ish guard (I don't subscribe but saw it on Pride of Detroit I think?) and Lang already tweeted at him that he has a place for him to stay... I definitely wouldn't mind bringing him in on a shorter deal to boost the line, maybe draft a guard late since that's going to be a need down the line too.

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1 hour ago, drownwithyou said:

Josh Sitton had his option declined by the Bears, PFF still rated him as a top 5ish guard (I don't subscribe but saw it on Pride of Detroit I think?) and Lang already tweeted at him that he has a place for him to stay... I definitely wouldn't mind bringing him in on a shorter deal to boost the line, maybe draft a guard late since that's going to be a need down the line too.

Lang-Dahl-Sitton is fine as our top 3 for next year IMO. Love the idea

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if quinn's short draft history is any indication, he will take a player at the most glaring position of need, from a big school, with a solid background, with good production in college.

i expect landry or vea.

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if quinn's short draft history is any indication, he will take a player at the most glaring position of need, from a big school, with a solid background, with good production in college.
i expect landry or vea.

Yep.

I hope Vea falls to us. There is nothing more disruptive to an offense than a wrecking ball in the middle of the DL.

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7 hours ago, Shelton said:

I don’t think there is any doubt that the lions will franchise ansah. They have the cap space and you can’t just walk away from a talent like that. It would be a different story if there was a good replacement for him available in free agency, but there isn’t. And spreading the money around on lesser players isn’t going to make the team better. 

New England traded Chandler Jones for a 2nd round pick and told Vince Wilfork to take a hike. Who knows how Quinn will view Ansash, especially since there is supposed uncertainty around is actual age.

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21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

New England traded Chandler Jones for a 2nd round pick and told Vince Wilfork to take a hike. Who knows how Quinn will view Ansash, especially since there is supposed uncertainty around is actual age.

I've always wondered how much of this is solely Bill's ego and how much of it has been an overall organizational philosophy (and after the whole Butler benching fiasco and the reactions it seems like there could be a rift in the locker room in regards to how players are treated/shipped out there, although I'm sure all the winning cures that).  I guess we'll find out...

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6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

New England traded Chandler Jones for a 2nd round pick and told Vince Wilfork to take a hike. Who knows how Quinn will view Ansash, especially since there is supposed uncertainty around is actual age.

and then lost the super bowl because their defensive line couldnt get any pressure on the qb...

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

and then lost the super bowl because their defensive line couldnt get any pressure on the qb...

True fact.

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9 hours ago, Buddha said:

and then lost the super bowl because their defensive line couldnt get any pressure on the qb...

A Super what? They actually won a Super Bowl after shipping both Jones and Wilfork out.

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16 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

A Super what? They actually won a Super Bowl after shipping both Jones and Wilfork out.

they won a super bowl because they have the greatest qb in nfl history.  their defense has been crap for a while and i think it has been because they traded away a lot of talent.

in a lot of ways, i think bellicheck is too clever for his own good.

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On 2/19/2018 at 6:04 PM, Buddha said:

... and the plan for the lions should be to keep ansah AND draft a pass rusher, be it an OLB like Landry or a DE like davenport or a DT like Vea.

This.

And I see a few more on board with this plan as well.

We have what? $45MM in cap? Subtract Ansah at ~$18MM and we still have $27MM to spend on filling holes. What was the problem here? That's more than enough $$$ to sign depth players at positions of need and re-sign a few of our own. We don't have to make star signings everywhere. Cheaper signings for the most part... but I think the team can ill afford to lose Ansah, at least until other options have been drafted/ developed.

Doesn't look like Vea will drop far enough for our #20... Landry or Davenport would be perfect.

2nd round RB, depth/developmental picks after that (DT/ OG/ CB/ LB'er... maybe even a 2nd RB).

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3 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

This.

And I see a few more on board with this plan as well.

We have what? $45MM in cap? Subtract Ansah at ~$18MM and we still have $27MM to spend on filling holes. What was the problem here? That's more than enough $$$ to sign depth players at positions of need and re-sign a few of our own. We don't have to make star signings everywhere. Cheaper signings for the most part... but I think the team can ill afford to lose Ansah, at least until other options have been drafted/ developed.

Doesn't look like Vea will drop far enough for our #20... Landry or Davenport would be perfect.

2nd round RB, depth/developmental picks after that (DT/ OG/ CB/ LB'er... maybe even a 2nd RB).

The problem is he . . .

A) Can't stay healthy and on the field and people don't want to wrap up that kind of cap space and money in an oft-injured player.

B) He hasn't exactly lit up the stat sheet the past two season on a consistent basis. Last year in particular he got 9 of his 12 sacks in 3 games against garbage offensive lines in the Bengals, Giants and Packers.

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19 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The problem is he . . .

A) Can't stay healthy and on the field and people don't want to wrap up that kind of cap space and money in an oft-injured player.

B) He hasn't exactly lit up the stat sheet the past two season on a consistent basis. Last year in particular he got 9 of his 12 sacks in 3 games against garbage offensive lines in the Bengals, Giants and Packers.

no other good options at rush end, imo.  you can franchise him for one year, draft someone, then let him go if he still cant produce.

whats the other legit option?  kerry hyder and a pick?  adrian claybourne?

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

they won a super bowl because they have the greatest qb in nfl history.  their defense has been crap for a while and i think it has been because they traded away a lot of talent.

in a lot of ways, i think bellicheck is too clever for his own good.

Sarcasm?

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On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

New England traded Chandler Jones for a 2nd round pick and told Vince Wilfork to take a hike. Who knows how Quinn will view Ansash, especially since there is supposed uncertainty around is actual age.

Wilfork was like 35 and toast

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47 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Sarcasm?

not really.

the pats defense doesnt have a lot of talent on it anymore, especially up front.  you live by the "we can turn anyone into a good player and win, even kyle van noy" philosophy, you die by the "we can turn anyone into a good player and win, even kyle van noy" philosophy.

that team lives off its historically great offense.

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On 2/21/2018 at 10:54 AM, Jason_R said:

From the outside it seems like a no-brainer to franchise Ansah; despite the injury history, he is the only DL the Lions have who presents a matchup problem to opposing offensive lines.

 

I disagree. It depends on how much you value Ansah given his injury history. Given other contracts on the team, team construction is a key issue for Quinn. Investing in oft injured and unproductive players is ill advised. It's a has high potential to be a Levy situation if he is signed long term. I don't think Ansah is worth the huge cap hit it would be to franchise him as it would prevent filling other needs.

Hopefully, Hyder is not a one year wonder and returns from injury well. You also hope Patricia and his staff can create internal improvement from the players they have.

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16 minutes ago, Buddha said:

not really.

the pats defense doesnt have a lot of talent...

that team lives off its historically great offense.

13/16 years the Pats defense has been in the top 10. Some of that can be attributed to offensive ball control but not all.

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7 minutes ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

13/16 years the Pats defense has been in the top 10. Some of that can be attributed to offensive ball control but not all.

i think 1/3 of it can be contributed to their historically great offense that doesnt give up the ball and scores a ton of points.  and 1/3 of it can be contributed to a great coaching staff including the greatest head coach in nfl history.  

put a 1/3 on the players.  this year i think their lack of defensive talent really showed.

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and yes, when i said they had the greatest coach in nfl history i meant matt patricia.

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I disagree. It depends on how much you value Ansah given his injury history. Given other contracts on the team, team construction is a key issue for Quinn. Investing in oft injured and unproductive players is ill advised. It's a has high potential to be a Levy situation if he is signed long term. I don't think Ansah is worth the huge cap hit it would be to franchise him as it would prevent filling other needs.
Hopefully, Hyder is not a one year wonder and returns from injury well. You also hope Patricia and his staff can create internal improvement from the players they have.

If Austin was coming back with his same scheme, to a team that is at the edge of playoff contention, fans wouldn’t want Quinn to deprive him of the only potential difference maker on the DL, in a year where there isn’t anyone else in FA and no obvious targets in the draft. You don’t want saving a few million dollars to keep you from reaching the playoffs.

But from the outside looking in, we have no idea what Ansah’s injury situation is. Is he just fragile, or has he been hurt worse than we know, and fighting through? And we don’t know what kind of player Patricia wants at the edge.

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10 hours ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

I disagree. It depends on how much you value Ansah given his injury history. ...high potential to be a Levy situation if he is signed long term. I don't think Ansah is worth the huge cap hit it would be to franchise him as it would prevent filling other needs.

Hopefully, Hyder is not a one year wonder and returns from injury well. You also hope Patricia and his staff can create internal improvement from the players they have.

I don't think the 1-year franchise prevents the team from filling other needs.

They don't have a boatload of expensive needs. They don't need an expensive QB. They don't need an expensive #1 CB. They don't need to sign any WR's or TE's or an expensive LT or RT.

And as for RB, this draft is loaded so, if they wanted to, they could draft good RB's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Maybe even the 4th. Heck, pick two rounds to add two RB's. Any RB we sign in FA should be a complimentary back, not LeVeon Bell. Add two young RB's from the first 4 rounds and we're set at the position for awhile.

So what do we need in FA? Re-sign Darren Fells (I would do that, for at least a year to give Roberts more time/ competition). A 2nd CB to give Tabor more time/ competition? Re-sign Hayden, who can start at #2 opposite Slay, and slide to Slot if Tabor can push him over there. Need to develop the DL'man we currently have, but still need depth/ competition, as well as new draftees/ talent? Re-sign Ngata (I'll get back to Ansah in a minute...). Develop Hyder and Copeland and Robinson and Zettel, etc. Need a LG? A veteran at the very least for depth and competition? Sign Josh Sitton. And draft a Guard in the 3rd or 4th and develop him into a starter. That's usually available in that area.

How many more FA moves are needed? Depth signings only, I believe. And how much is the cost of the moves I listed above? Not much. Feel free to disagree or add other positions you think we need. And how much will all that cost?

As for Ansah: just say no to signing him long-term. Which makes your Levy comparison moot.

Signing him to a franchise tag won't hurt other FA signings because I don't believe we have a bevy of expensive moves to make, outside of getting a pass-rusher and maybe a LG. Everything else is depth or draft. And I think the team benefits by having Ansah on the right side, drafting a 1st round DE, and letting the DE work/ compete to take over the position for a year. Even with Ansah's injury history.

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