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Sydney_Fife

2018 NBA Trade Deadline

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32 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

SVG has won practically every trade he has had in Detroit. My worry with him isn't in the trade market, it is with free agency. 

SVG has won lots of battles but he is losing the war.  He needs to keep flipping for younger, more talented and cost-controlled personnel to set the franchise up for the next several years.  That is the main reason I was happy he acquired Bradley, so so he could flip him to a contending team at the deadline for either a young/cheap/talented player or a draft pick if we threw in other considerations to get there.

Middleton and Dinwiddie are two prime examples of great draft values that he didn't have the patience to see through on development, and it looks as if Kennard could be added to that list.

And yeah, SVG has been a little snakebitten with the FA market but he did it to himself to a certain extent because he loves veteran players.

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22 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

For me if the Pistons make a move I'd love to see them snag Bazemore in a deal involving Stanley and Leuer. Hopefully no first. I'll do Reggie and a first for George Hill though...

Eww, hard no on that deal.  I don't even know if I'd do Reggie for Hill straight up nevermind adding the 1st.

Also, dealing Kennard would be about the dumbest thing SVG could do.  Cost controlled, plenty of potential.  You don't deal guys like that.

I can't imagine that there's much of a market for Stanley unless some teams sees some untapped potential in him.

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I think Mirotic is ok and better than some here have given him credit for. But I wouldn't trade a first for him.

There are only a few reasons I ever would trade a first.

Quote

 

1. Part of a package for a star.

2. Some type of pick swap. Combing picks to move up in the draft.

3. Adding that missing piece to put you over the hump to become a contender.

 

Mirotic doesn't check anything off on that list. 

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12 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

I have a bad feeling SVG is going to send that pick out for a quick fix, but I really hope I'm wrong.

Get ready because it's likely going to happen. SVG is in win now mode.

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14 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Not to nitpick. But Joe was the one who traded Middleton.

That's right.

**** that guy, too.

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7 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Get ready because it's likely going to happen. SVG is in win now mode.

With the production he's gotten out of Buycks, SVG is better off saving assets and combing the G-League on the cheap.

But yeah, you're probably right.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

 

That's right.

**** that guy, too.

That was the summer of Josh!

To be fair, that's on Gores. He never should have left Joe in charge that extra year.

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1 hour ago, 313DetroitCity said:

SVG has won practically every trade he has had in Detroit. My worry with him isn't in the trade market, it is with free agency. 

yeah...I definitely understand everyone's concerns, but the one place SVGM has been impeccable to date has been in the trade department. He's been an average drafter, a below average FA finder, and quite frankly a below average coach the last couple of years....but when dealing with other GM's and finding deals, he's been beyond reproach.

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7 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

With the production he's gotten out of Buycks, SVG is better off saving assets and combing the G-League on the cheap.

But yeah, you're probably right.

Agreed, I really like what I'm seeing from Buycks.  Maybe it's just a fluke run but if he keeps up this level of play and with Reggie coming back eventually although after the deadline unfortunately, there's really no reason to scour the PG market. 

I understand the interest in Mirotic and Fournier though and it seems like the 1st will likely be involved.  For Fournier I would give up a 1st+ but for Mirotic not so sure.  It's too bad that Reggie got injured now, he would have been a good trade chip to use in a salary for salary deal to fill a need elsewhere.

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But here's my issue with valuing the pick so much. 

Let's say the Pistons make the playoffs, 7th seed. That gives them what, the 17th-18th pick? That's going to give them what, another Henry Ellenson? A guy that needs 3 years in an oven to POTENTIALLY become something? I get holding on to lottery picks. But if this team goes out and replaces Reggie, that pick could possibly be in the low 20's. What value does that hold? Especially the way SVG has drafted.

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25 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Get ready because it's likely going to happen. SVG is in win now mode.

What has he done to signal this to you? The core of the team is in their 20s. We haven't traded any draft picks. We haven't signed aging vets. 

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26 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I think Mirotic is ok and better than some here have given him credit for. But I wouldn't trade a first for him.

There are only a few reasons I ever would trade a first.

Mirotic doesn't check anything off on that list. 

I'd trade Leuer and the pick for him. Dumps a contract that really doesn't have much place on this roster. His shooting fell off a cliff and has been hurt.

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45 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

SVG has won lots of battles but he is losing the war.  He needs to keep flipping for younger, more talented and cost-controlled personnel to set the franchise up for the next several years.  That is the main reason I was happy he acquired Bradley, so so he could flip him to a contending team at the deadline for either a young/cheap/talented player or a draft pick if we threw in other considerations to get there.

Middleton and Dinwiddie are two prime examples of great draft values that he didn't have the patience to see through on development, and it looks as if Kennard could be added to that list.

And yeah, SVG has been a little snakebitten with the FA market but he did it to himself to a certain extent because he loves veteran players.

Analyze every trade individually, and you will see that SVG is damn near perfect in that regard. Sure, there are trades he may not have made. But the ones he has made have been wins. 

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5 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

But here's my issue with valuing the pick so much. 

Let's say the Pistons make the playoffs, 7th seed. That gives them what, the 17th-18th pick? That's going to give them what, another Henry Ellenson? A guy that needs 3 years in an oven to POTENTIALLY become something? I get holding on to lottery picks. But if this team goes out and replaces Reggie, that pick could possibly be in the low 20's. What value does that hold? Especially the way SVG has drafted.

If you trade the 1st round pick, you better not only make the playoffs but win a playoff series. If you trade the pick and miss the playoffs you are facing a complete disaster. 

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1 minute ago, 313DetroitCity said:

If you trade the 1st round pick, you better not only make the playoffs but win a playoff series. If you trade the pick and miss the playoffs you are facing a complete disaster. 

They will make the playoffs if they acquire a solid player.

It's a gamble, but one worth taking if you get an impact guy. Pistons need a replacement for Jackson.

They're capped out with this team. It's the right time to roll the dice.

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4 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

They will make the playoffs if they acquire a solid player.

It's a gamble, but one worth taking if you get an impact guy. Pistons need a replacement for Jackson.

They're capped out with this team. It's the right time to roll the dice.

It is all about who you get in return and who you ship off. I am fine with trading the 1st round pick if we get a guy who is in his mid 20s (at the latest), who propels this team to the 4th seed. 
 
I will be very disappointed if we get an average player who doesn't change the season for us in any significant way. 

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13 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

What has he done to signal this to you? The core of the team is in their 20s. We haven't traded any draft picks. We haven't signed aging vets. 

Every rumor is indicating that he's looking for current upgrades.  Teams that are buyers generally give up futures to get that player.

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I'd trade the 1st round pick for someone young enough. Not for someone 29+. I definitely think nba draft picks are way over-valued unless you're Greg Popovich...in which case you have a 50/50 shot of landing a generational talent.

side note: I didn't realize that the Pacers drafted Leonard and then traded him on draft night. While he was probably chosen by Pop, Indiana could have had Paul George and Kawhi Leonard....That would have been a pretty solid tandem and probably could have brought some high end FA's to Indiana. Oof

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14 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Every rumor is indicating that he's looking for current upgrades.  Teams that are buyers generally give up futures to get that player.

Rumors are rumors. SVG has done nothing to signal "win now mode". If anything the team has been in "rely on internal developments from your young core" mode.  

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28 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Analyze every trade individually, and you will see that SVG is damn near perfect in that regard. Sure, there are trades he may not have made. But the ones he has made have been wins. 

Go back through the years and we have analyzed these trades to death.

And yes, he's had many wins on individual trades and this was the perfect year to cash in on all of the assets.  Trade those established assets for assets with lasting value on the cheap.  Morris was a great example of such and asset, and he was traded to bring AB here.  Getting AB here represented an opportunity to flip an All-defense 3&D guy on an expiring for a cost-controlled asset with ceiling.   Otherwise, trading for AB was a complete misuse of assets.

Not getting assets for KCP and Monroe was a sin, and those were trades that should have been made.

Further, this is the year to trade Harris.  His value is as high as it has ever been and getting a young, cost-controlled player/pick with ceiling builds for the future and saves money on a hard-capped team.

If this team is 100% healthy, and playing at their best, the team is no better than 5th in the EC with zero hope of making an ECF.  You lose AB at the end of the year with zero compensation, making the trade of Morris a complete waste.  The FA signings to the bench don't allow for much in the way of replacing AB, and you face having to give Harris a big extension or risk losing him as a UFA at the end of next season.

In short, SVG has a lot of work to do if this team is going to be relevant in two years.  Boston, MKE, CHI, IND, WAS, PHI will all be better by then and TOR will perhaps be about the same.

Like I said, right now he's losing the war.

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6 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Go back through the years and we have analyzed these trades to death.

And yes, he's had many wins on individual trades and this was the perfect year to cash in on all of the assets.  Trade those established assets for assets with lasting value on the cheap.  Morris was a great example of such and asset, and he was traded to bring AB here.  Getting AB here represented an opportunity to flip an All-defense 3&D guy on an expiring for a cost-controlled asset with ceiling.   Otherwise, trading for AB was a complete misuse of assets.

Not getting assets for KCP and Monroe was a sin, and those were trades that should have been made.

Further, this is the year to trade Harris.  His value is as high as it has ever been and getting a young, cost-controlled player/pick with ceiling builds for the future and saves money on a hard-capped team.

If this team is 100% healthy, and playing at their best, the team is no better than 5th in the EC with zero hope of making an ECF.  You lose AB at the end of the year with zero compensation, making the trade of Morris a complete waste.  The FA signings to the bench don't allow for much in the way of replacing AB, and you face having to give Harris a big extension or risk losing him as a UFA at the end of next season.

In short, SVG has a lot of work to do if this team is going to be relevant in two years.  Boston, MKE, CHI, IND, WAS, PHI will all be better by then and TOR will perhaps be about the same.

Like I said, right now he's losing the war.

 

Again - if you want to knock him for trades he DIDN'T make, that is a different story. We don't know what the offers were, and we don't know what was rejected by other teams.


What we do know is that the trades he actually executed have been amazing. He has consistently won. So if he trades a 1st round pick, I am fairly confident it will be a good return. 
 

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svg has acquired more talent in every trade he has made.  but he's also put together an expensive team with a ceiling of a middle of the pack eastern conference squad.  the team isnt good enough to trade a future asset for a player to put them over the top.

but i blame gores as much as svg.  svg was behind the 8ball when he got here.

as has been said, the more glaring problem with svg has been his free agent acquisitions and his inability to get any assets for players he has no use for (smith, monroe, and kcp).

 

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29 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Rumors are rumors. SVG has done nothing to signal "win now mode". If anything the team has been in "rely on internal developments from your young core" mode.  

trading for guys on big contracts like harris, and guys who will take big contracts to keep like reggie (and potentially bradley), signing drummond to a monster deal, overpaying for bench players, not trading for future picks, all signals his intent is to win now.

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