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MAROTH4MVP

Packers @ Lions 1pm

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6 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

No one deserves to lose their job more than JBC.  Waits until we are out of it to actually try.  **** that guy. 

I don't think Caldwell or JBC is calling anything anymore. Looks to me like Stafford is running that offense right now. And he's having some fun doing it. 

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4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You know if Caldwell gets fired, that gives me a lot of faith in the new regime.  It means 9-7 isn't good enough.    That's not the norm for this town.  

It honestly tells me relatively little.

I think this idea that Quinn or Caldwell or any coach, or professional athlete for that matter, are happy with 9-7 is largely nonsense.  Everyone wants to win and virtually everyone involved in the endeavor wants to succeed and win titles.  Matt Millen wanted to win titles and didn't think 9-7 was good enough.  He simply wasn't equipped to succeed.

The better question is whether Caldwell is equipped to succeed, and if not, who is the available coach who is better equipped to succeed with this roster?

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Alternately, do we really think the difference between good coaches and bad coaches, good players and bad players, good GMs and bad GMs is partially or primarily based in wanting to win titles more or not being satisfied with 9-7?

I get WCF was all about his drinking buddies and being loyal to his friends.  But WCF wasn't a professional football man.  He just was a rich guy that happened to own a professional football team as a play-thing.

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The 2016 & 2017 Browns, quite possibly, is the worst 2 year stretch in the history of the league.

IIRC, 538's eloRater had the 2016 Browns as a worse team than the 2006 Lions, and the 2017 Browns as worse than the 2016 version.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Alternately, do we really think the difference between good coaches and bad coaches, good players and bad players, good GMs and bad GMs is partially or primarily based in wanting to win titles more?

I get WCF was all about his drinking buddies and being loyal to his friends.  But WCF wasn't a professional football man.  He just was a rich guy that happened to own a professional football team as a plaything.

He was given the football team because his father/family didn't believe he was capable of being a cold-hearted business man and wanted to keep him away form the car company (and he did like his drinking) and by all accounts he really was a nice guy.  Too bad he just never hired the right people to run.  

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18 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

...........and clinched on a pass right through the guy's hands

That's how teams lose 16 games.  Just not making plays that are there to be had.

I'd guess a typical bad team that can execute on fundamental plays will win 4 or 5 games a season on average.  Sometimes the turnover battle or special teams battle go your way due to random variation / luck.

You have to be a special level of stink to not get at least a couple of wins.

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17 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

He was given the football team because his father/family didn't believe he was capable of being a cold-hearted business man and wanted to keep him away form the car company (and he did like his drinking) and by all accounts he really was a nice guy.  Too bad he just never hired the right people to run.  

Correct, but my point is his attitude nothing to do with Quinn or Millen or Caldwell or anyone else inside of the game's desire to win titles at all costs.  I think damn near everyone in the game feels that way.  Everyone wants to win.  Millen wanted to win.  He just didn't have a good plan or idea to achieve it.

Firing Caldwell isn't some referendum on proving the Lions want to win.  They want to win regardless.  Firing Caldwell merely means the Lions organization thinks there is a better alternative to that end that they can employ.  Not firing him means they do not think that a better alternative is available now as opposed to the idea they are collectively ok with going 9-7.

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Or, alternately, if the Lions fire Jim not because they think they have a better coach lined up, but rather ARE doing it to prove some point that the organization isn't satisfied with 9-7, then the team is ****ed.

It is that sort of false bravado and faulty logic that sets organizations back 5 years.

And I write that as someone who is not a fan of Caldwell.

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19 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Somewhat off topic, I thought that was a fun game to watch.

I was entertained.

It’s almost as if the intent of playing these games is to entertain for a few hours, much like a movie or a concert.

I was also entertained, mostly due to the *** kicking, but the ability to remove “stakes” also helps. 

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I think Stafford and the passing offense have the potential to be among the league's best next year.  They haven't been in the top 10 in the opponent-adjusted efficiency stats in passing since 2012 and I think that is where they most underperformed under Caldwell. Everything else seemed as you'd expect.

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I would say the 2008 Lions were worse than the Browns. The Browns actually don't have the worst defense and have given up over 100 fewer points than the 2008 Lions. The Lions were a little better offensively, but the Browns point differential is about 75 points better. The Lions apparently played a tougher schedule so who knows. 

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If  you said before the season started that they'd sweep the Bears, sweep the Packers and beat the Vikings in Minnesota you would guess Division Winner and the Lions don't even make the playoffs.     That is so Lions.    

 

And sorry, I don't recall the Lions ever willing to fire a coach after a winning season.    Don't give me Gary Moeller, a half season doesn't count even though he did not have the Interim tag (he got a 3 year contract).   

 

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I may not like Caldwell, but the Browns have said Hue Jackson's job is "safe" after 1-31 in two seasons. I know the roster is bad, but it's not that bad. What a joke

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