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djhutch

BECAUSE Not Caldwell, So Then Who?

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i wouldnt want jon gruden.  he's been out of the game too long.  and i get that dick vermeil did it, but i wouldnt want to test that theory again.

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I’m not in a position to say whether or not Gruden should be hired, but given that he is reportedly asking former assistants if they would join his staff, Quinn should at least reach out to him.

In any case, I’m genuinely curious if people who use the term “retread” think of him that way. Would they write him off just because he got fired after winning a Super Bowl?

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3 hours ago, Jason_R said:

I’m not in a position to say whether or not Gruden should be hired, but given that he is reportedly asking former assistants if they would join his staff, Quinn should at least reach out to him.

In any case, I’m genuinely curious if people who use the term “retread” think of him that way. Would they write him off just because he got fired after winning a Super Bowl?

Taking a guy out of the broadcast booth to run the team sounds like it just might work !

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Its been many years for Gruden.

I wouldn't call him a retread, but he hasn't coached in some 10 years and after he won his Super Bowl he really didn't do much with Tampa Bay.

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Taking a guy out of the broadcast booth to run the team sounds like it just might work !

Clever.

Matt Millen did not coach a Super Bowl champion. If there is a Super Bowl-winning coach who is still pretty young looking to get back in, I think you have to kick the tires.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Its been many years for Gruden.

I wouldn't call him a retread, but he hasn't coached in some 10 years and after he won his Super Bowl he really didn't do much with Tampa Bay.

Dick Vermeil came back after 15 years out of the game and won a Super Bowl. Plus, Gruden had no QBs whatsoever in Tampa and did pretty well. I imagine he would salivate to have a chance with Stafford. Then again, he might want more control over personnel than Quinn would be willing to provide.  

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The only reasons anyone mentions Gruden is he won a Super Bowl.  Well, that and he is a commentator, which keeps him in the public's consciousness.  Take either away, and I doubt he would be mentioned.

Honestly, had he not won that Super Bowl, he would be considered a flop in TB.  Post SB, he accomplished very little with the Bucs for 5 years.  Basically his tenure after that Super Bowl was worse than Caldwell's tenure in Detroit.

Lets go get Mike Shanahan.

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It'll be interesting to see who all gets fired in the NFL.   As long as there aren't any real surprises I think the Lions may be one of the top 2 or 3 destinations for potential coaches.   I still see Houston as more desirable because of all the talent on defense and the potential of Deshaun Watson but other than them I don't know who would look better than the Lions.  

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The only reasons anyone mentions Gruden is he won a Super Bowl.  Well, that and he is a commentator, which keeps him in the public's consciousness.  Take either away, and I doubt he would be mentioned.

Honestly, had he not won that Super Bowl, he would be considered a flop in TB.  Post SB, he accomplished very little with the Bucs for 5 years.  Basically his tenure after that Super Bowl was worse than Caldwell's tenure in Detroit.

Lets go get Mike Shanahan.

jimmy johnson!

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Gruden wins Super Bowl 15 years ago with a Tony Dungy team and people want him as coach. Caldwell goes to Super Bowl more recently with a Tony Dungy team and people want him fired. Speaking of Tony Dungy, maybe he has the itch to coach again?

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The only reasons anyone mentions Gruden is he won a Super Bowl.  Well, that and he is a commentator, which keeps him in the public's consciousness.  Take either away, and I doubt he would be mentioned.

Honestly, had he not won that Super Bowl, he would be considered a flop in TB.  Post SB, he accomplished very little with the Bucs for 5 years.  Basically his tenure after that Super Bowl was worse than Caldwell's tenure in Detroit.

Lets go get Mike Shanahan.

Tampa traded multiple high draft picks to get Gruden plus they were in salary cap **** for a while. He did alright with what he had. I don't see it as enough to resurrect his coaching career. 

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Me.  I'm the coach.  

We will never get stopped on 3rd and 1.  Will run it only if we're tying to kill the clock. Never punt on the other side of the field.   Will got for it on 4th and less than 5 100 percent of time outside my own 25 yard line.   Will fire OC if he runs it on 1st and 15 and then again on 2nd and 18. 

Seriously, was there anything worse than those back to back runs all year?  desparately needing to win, and JBC won't let Stafford throw.  

Also, id hire Buddha as a special advisor, mostly have him post for me on the message board during games.  Refs still gonna cheat ya.  

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Gruden did beat Gruden’s team in that Super Bowl, so it’s not like he came out of nowhere. Caldwell went to the Super Bowl and got out coached (which is not to hard to do as the man doesn’t ever seem to do any form of actual coaching). My issue with Gruden is listening to him on the broadcast not understand the rules he will be expected to teach to his players. Blatant holding or pass interference caught on tape and he says, ”I don’t see it.” Do you want him holding the challenge flag when he’s so clueless on the catch rules?

 

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The only reasons anyone mentions Gruden is he won a Super Bowl.  Well, that and he is a commentator, which keeps him in the public's consciousness.  Take either away, and I doubt he would be mentioned.
Honestly, had he not won that Super Bowl, he would be considered a flop in TB.  Post SB, he accomplished very little with the Bucs for 5 years.  Basically his tenure after that Super Bowl was worse than Caldwell's tenure in Detroit.
Lets go get Mike Shanahan.

The only reason people say Aaron Rodgers is a good QB is that he won a Super Bowl. Take that away and he’s just a guy with a bad shoulder who we only remember because he’s in State Farm commercials. Did you see him last week? He was just a **** out there. Forget Brett Hundley, the Packers oughtta get Brett Favre.

I’m not saying I want Gruden hired, just considered. In addition to a Super Bowl, his Raiders team lost in the AFC Championship to the historically great SB-winning Ravens defense, and in the infamous “tuck rule” game against the Patriots at the start of their run. Those were two of his four playoff losses, against five wins. He also had five division titles in 11 seasons coaching. And he turned journeyman Rich Gannon into a Pro Bowl QB.

I think because some people only remember him as a commentator they under-rate his accomplishments as a coach.

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21 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Me.  I'm the coach.  

We will never get stopped on 3rd and 1.  Will run it only if we're tying to kill the clock. Never punt on the other side of the field.   Will got for it on 4th and less than 5 100 percent of time outside my own 25 yard line.   Will fire OC if he runs it on 1st and 15 and then again on 2nd and 18. 

Seriously, was there anything worse than those back to back runs all year?  desparately needing to win, and JBC won't let Stafford throw.  

Also, id hire Buddha as a special advisor, mostly have him post for me on the message board during games.  Refs still gonna cheat ya.  

Dilly Dilly

 

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59 minutes ago, Jason_R said:


The only reason people say Aaron Rodgers is a good QB is that he won a Super Bowl. Take that away and he’s just a guy with a bad shoulder who we only remember because he’s in State Farm commercials. Did you see him last week? He was just a **** out there. Forget Brett Hundley, the Packers oughtta get Brett Favre.

I’m not saying I want Gruden hired, just considered. In addition to a Super Bowl, his Raiders team lost in the AFC Championship to the historically great SB-winning Ravens defense, and in the infamous “tuck rule” game against the Patriots at the start of their run. Those were two of his four playoff losses, against five wins. He also had five division titles in 11 seasons coaching. And he turned journeyman Rich Gannon into a Pro Bowl QB.

I think because some people only remember him as a commentator they under-rate his accomplishments as a coach.

All good points. The more I look at Gruden's resume, the more I'm inclined to give him a chance. He's not necessarily my first choice at this point. But, he did win 3 division titles in 7 seasons at Tampa (2 in 4 years in Oakland) -- 5 in 11 seasons, how many have the Lions won in 11 years? And, a Super Bowl title. He did better with Tony Dungy's team than Dungy did. Also, under his tenure, not only was Brad Johnson a Pro bowler, so was Jeff Garcia. Yes...Jeff Garcia.

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:


The only reason people say Aaron Rodgers is a good QB is that he won a Super Bowl. Take that away and he’s just a guy with a bad shoulder who we only remember because he’s in State Farm commercials. Did you see him last week? He was just a **** out there. Forget Brett Hundley, the Packers oughtta get Brett Favre.

I’m not saying I want Gruden hired, just considered. In addition to a Super Bowl, his Raiders team lost in the AFC Championship to the historically great SB-winning Ravens defense, and in the infamous “tuck rule” game against the Patriots at the start of their run. Those were two of his four playoff losses, against five wins. He also had five division titles in 11 seasons coaching. And he turned journeyman Rich Gannon into a Pro Bowl QB.

I think because some people only remember him as a commentator they under-rate his accomplishments as a coach.

The idea that Gruden is an analogue for Aaron Rodgers is laughable.  Aaron Rodgers is currently great, and has been great a lot longer than Gruden was. 

Gruden hasn't coached in 10 years, did zero the 5 years after he won the Super Bowl.  Made a couple of play-offs, won a divsion, but failed to win a single play-off game.  Sound familiar?  We can bag on Caldwell all we want - and that is fair - but Gruden didn't accomplish anything more tangible with the Bucs after winning the SB than Caldwell did with the LIons.  It seems to me hiring Gruden means hiring the guy based on what he did 15 - 20 years ago.

Gruden did great things with the Raiders 15-20 years ago and was brought in to put the finishing touches on a stacked team minus a QB, which he did.  Deserves a lot of credit for that.  But it was 15 years ago and there have been a lot changes in the game in 15 years.  A lot of coaches have come and gone in that time frame, such as Mike Shanahan, who frankly was more successful than Jon, if anything, yet I think everyone views Mike as washed up.  That written, I fully conceed Jon could be Dick Vermeil 2.0, but I'd suggest chances are he isn't.

And it ignores the larger point, in my mind, which is the Lions are not a largely finished team that just needs a QB friendly coach to elevate a game manager to good level to be a Super Bowl caliber team.  Honestly, the lion's share (no pun intended) of the coaching discussion in this thread misses the larger point in my mind, which is this team is not going anywhere until the lines improve markedly.   In my estimation, improving line play will do far more than any other thing.  Will hiring Jon Gruden going to help address line play? Honest question.

 

 

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I honestly don't give a **** about a division title.  If Caldwell had won a division title but failed to win a play-off game, I do not believe for a moment anyone would be pointing to a division title as a reason to keep Caldwell.  I certainly wouldn't.

My enjoyment of the Lions has not been impacted because they didn't win a division under Caldwell. 

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1 hour ago, T&P_Fan said:

Seriously, was there anything worse than those back to back runs all year?  desparately needing to win, and JBC won't let Stafford throw.  

Not going to lie, that was ****ing brutal in just about any context.

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I think winning division titles is important. For one thing, that means you are playing a home playoff game. For another, it puts you in position to be playing that home playoff game against a mediocre wild card team, and possibly a first round bye. 

It’s not all that shocking that the lions haven’t won a playoff game for so long when so many of them have been as a wild card on the road against a better team.

 

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20 minutes ago, azzurri said:

The more I look at Gruden's resume, the more I'm inclined to give him a chance. H

I am the opposite.  At first I thought maybe, then I looked at his resume and said 'pass'.

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12 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think winning division titles is important. For one thing, that means you are playing a home playoff game. For another, it puts you in position to be playing that home playoff game against a mediocre wild card team, and possibly a first round bye. 

It’s not all that shocking that the lions haven’t won a playoff game for so long when so many of them have been as a wild card on the road against a better team.

It also isn't that shocking because the Lions haven't have very many very good teams in my lifetime and absent injury, the Packers have been good for 10+ wins a year going on damn near 25 seasons now.

But my larger point was had the Lions won a division under Caldwell but lost their resulting play-off game, I do not think winning the division would be argued as a reason to keep Caldwell.

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