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84 Lives!!!

Who can we trade this year?

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15 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Other than the Helm and Nielsen signings, what bad moves has Holland made in the past 2 years? There are moves I wish he had made, but the ones he has made weren't horrible. Datsyuk trade was good - moved down a few spots in the 1st round to also pick up a high 2nd - regardless of the cap hit gains. Got two 2nds for Smith last deadline. Didn't do anything last summer, which is good, except the relatively minor Daley move. Damage Holland did was mostly in the 2013-2016 timeframe.

arent the wings in salary cap purgatory because of his moves?  signing mediocre players to long, overpriced deals?

thats the impression i get, but i dont really follow it too closely.

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10 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Those Helm and Nielsen signings are gigantic blunders though. I'd also fault him for bungling the AA situation this off-season.

He did not bungle the AA situation and AA isn't that good anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

He did not bungle the AA situation and AA isn't that good anyway.

It was a mutual bungle, and AA is not as good as we think he is.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

arent the wings in salary cap purgatory because of his moves?  signing mediocre players to long, overpriced deals?

thats the impression i get, but i dont really follow it too closely.

Yep.  LS isn't wrong that he hasn't had too many blunders in 2017-2018 (although he has plenty of time left in 2018), but his past mistakes of giving mediocre guys long term contracts is messing with their cap situation.  Heck they still have to pay Weiss until 2021!  DeKeyser at $5 million per until 2022, Ericsson at $4.25 until 2020, Luke Glendening at $1.8 until 2021, Abdeldader at freaking $4.25 until 2023!  When you make that bad of moves, adding two bad contracts with Helm and Nielsen just compounds it even if it is just two bad moves in 2017-2018.  I at least enjoy Nielsen's game.  I still have no idea why thought it was necessary to bring Helm back.

 

Will this front office ever learn that "saving" (I put that in quotes because at these cap hits I'm not sure how much they even saved) some cap hit by giving filler players longer terms is a bad idea?

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Not only was the Tatar trade a knockout,, but the Mrazek trade was huge too. The 4th this year can turn into a 3rd or even 2nd. The 3rd next year can turn into a 2nd or 1st. That's basically Herschel Walker territory.  Keep Kenny Holland!

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14 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Not only was the Tatar trade a knockout,, but the Mrazek trade was huge too. The 4th this year can turn into a 3rd or even 2nd. The 3rd next year can turn into a 2nd or 1st. That's basically Herschel Walker territory.  Keep Kenny Holland!

How does the 3rd next year turn into a 2nd or 1st?

I think you're incorrect there... If Mrazek resigns with the Flyers, they get next year's 3rd. If he signs elsewhere, I think they get nothing. No other adjustments (1st or 2nd) that I have heard of...

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1 minute ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

How does the 3rd next year turn into a 2nd or 1st?

I think you're incorrect there... If Mrazek resigns with the Flyers, they get next year's 3rd. If he signs elsewhere, I think they get nothing. No other adjustments (1st or 2nd) that I have heard of...

edit: I should have read cruzer's post more closely!  I thought you were saying no adjustment on either pick, derp.

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21 minutes ago, drownwithyou said:

 DeKeyser at $5 million per until 2022, 

15 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

 

I know, I forgot about that one until I was in my car! So much is such a blur.

Yeah, it has really been death by a thousand cuts. 

As I've stated before, I can understand the Kronwall-Ericsson-Howard contracts even if none of those worked out. In a way, salary cap **** is unavoidable, just ask the Hawks who have worked it masterfully for years but are now getting caught out. It's the Abdelkader-Glendening-Nielsen-Helm signings that were the tipping point.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

arent the wings in salary cap purgatory because of his moves?  signing mediocre players to long, overpriced deals?

thats the impression i get, but i dont really follow it too closely.

It's like Kenny treated the salary cap as a salary minimum as well.  Rather than retreat when losing out on a top UFA and pocket the money to give you flexibility down the road for when a better opportunity arises, Holland would burn through the money anyways by overpaying for a couple of average players. It reminds me of government departments that are coming in under budget with a month left in the fiscal year so go on a wild spree to spend the rest of their allocation to prevent next year's budget from being chopped.

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1 minute ago, lordstanley said:

It's like Kenny treated the salary cap as a salary minimum as well.  Rather than retreat when losing out on a top UFA and pocket the money to give you flexibility down the road for when a better opportunity arises, Holland would burn through the money anyways by overpaying for a couple of average players. It reminds me of government departments that are coming in under budget with a month left in the fiscal year so go on a wild spree to spend the rest of their allocation to prevent next year's budget from being chopped.

Ya this is where my frustration comes from.  I wish he would at least do the spending on short deals to give flexibility.  It's crappy to see a team like the Penguins be able to add talent just about every year because they tend to not lock up anyone outside of their top guys to long term deals (although looking at their D they seem to be getting away from that somewhat... probably the natural evolution of a roster in the salary cap world though.  See the Chicago Blackhawks).

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Made it to his evaluation of Green's play in Detroit via plus minus and closed the window (paragraph 1 I think haha).  No thanks.

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how are the wings prospects doing?  anyone developing into a good player?

seems like they might have to attach some picks to move some of those salaries if they really want to get rid of them.

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

 

seems like they might have to attach some picks to move some of those salaries if they really want to get rid of them.

That would be a terrible idea. Just wait it out. If the team is bad use the high picks to build upon. Eventually the bad contracts will expire and the Red Wings can hopefully be good again.

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

how are the wings prospects doing?  anyone developing into a good player?

seems like they might have to attach some picks to move some of those salaries if they really want to get rid of them.

Rasmussen is having a solid season despite some injuries, 49 points in 37 games (24 goals) in the WHL.  He looked good in a couple pre season games with the Wings too.

Cholowski has put up 58 points in 58 games in the WHL but has slowed a bit since being traded to a better team.

In the AHL, Hronek is having a great rookie season.  He's second in rookie d scoring and I've read he's playing well defensively, it is a flawed stat but he does have the best plus minus on the team so he's at least been on the ice for some good results.

 

Otherwise I guess Svechnikov is their other big name, but he's had a down year.  He's improved and Blashill did say he can see him getting called up for a few games this season.  I've read that Lindstrom has looked solid in Europe this year but I bet he's a long way off.  The Wings definitely need elite talent in all aspects of the game in their system imo, hopefully both first round picks next draft help towards that.

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I should add that the Wings were felt to have a pretty stocked farm system 4 - 5 years ago and as a group the players developed out of that have been solid but unspectacular.

Mantha and Larkin are the crown jewels, as it were, and I have a hard time buying they could ever be the key players of a championship team.

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39 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I should add that the Wings were felt to have a pretty stocked farm system 4 - 5 years ago and as a group the players developed out of that have been solid but unspectacular.

Mantha and Larkin are the crown jewels, as it were, and I have a hard time buying they could ever be the key players of a championship team.

Yep, I remember the giddiness some felt about the future in the spring of 2013 after taking the Hawks to OT of Game 7 in the 2nd round and having young guys like Nyquist and Tatar on the roster and D like XO, Sproul and Marchenko in the pipeline. Most prospects of most teams disappoint.

I wonder how close we have to be to #1 overall after the lottery to get Dahlin. For example, if the Wings were to land at #3 overall, would that #3 OA pick + Mantha + AA get us Dahlin? I don't think it would, but I'd make that trade if it would.

 

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1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

Yep, I remember the giddiness some felt about the future in the spring of 2013 after taking the Hawks to OT of Game 7 in the 2nd round and having young guys like Nyquist and Tatar on the roster and D like XO, Sproul and Marchenko in the pipeline. Most prospects of most teams disappoint.

I wonder how close we have to be to #1 overall after the lottery to get Dahlin. For example, if the Wings were to land at #3 overall, would that #3 OA pick + Mantha + AA get us Dahlin? I don't think it would, but I'd make that trade if it would.

 

**** no. Dahlin is great but Mantha is untouchable. AA is extremely talented.

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Dahlin is a potential generational talent.  Neither Mantha nor AA are even close to that level of talent, it would be a no brainer to me to trade one or both.  My guess is that no other team would take that trade though.  In my opinion I wouldn't call any player in the Wings' system off limits in connection with a Dahlin trade.

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2 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

**** no. Dahlin is great but Mantha is untouchable. AA is extremely talented.

Not only are Mantha and AA not untouchable, neither is Larkin.

There are 40 guys easily I'd trade Mantha for 1 to 1, even considering contract situations. Larkin, 20-25. AA - 100.

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I think those are the 3 guys I'd build the team around. They should be a line together.

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