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#19 Michigan vs #5 Wisconsin - 11/18/17

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9 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

This just might be the general ceiling for UM football. There’s something in the program that prevents them from getting into the tiers of the likes of Ohio State and Wisconsin. 

Well if you mean they are not going to abuse the rules to the extent OSU traditionally has, yeah - that is one big thing - or maybe many, many little green things. Being as good as Wisky seems like it should be within reach though.

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9 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

Yet they just handed our asses to us on a plate.

I don’t expect UM to win next week, but it will be a huge character test. If we get rolled by UM, it’s going to say a lot about the mentality of this team. 

The mentality and performance of this team looked just fine when we had a decent QB at the helm.

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4 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

The mentality and performance of this team looked just fine when we had a decent QB at the helm.

Changing QBs shouldn’t completely deflate an entire team. That’s a cultural issue the program needs to change. 

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Just now, Euphdude said:

Changing QBs shouldn’t completely deflate an entire team. That’s a cultural issue the program needs to change. 

When the guy coming in has performed horribly, I'm not sure that's cultural. That's just fact. 

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this was always a transition year.  new qb, new wrs, young defense.  not a shock to be a 4 loss team. 

the next two years are the critical years where they should be competing again for big ten titles.  they have lots of defensive talent and they should have an experienced better qb.

again, the key is the oline.  harbaugh has missed on some big oline recruits and its killing the team.  they have to get better up front on offense if they want to compete with osu.

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48 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

When the guy coming in has performed horribly, I'm not sure that's cultural. That's just fact. 

Yep, they should be more mentally tough than that but it's really hard to be enthusiastic behind a quarterback whose a proven loser.

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25 minutes ago, Buddha said:

this was always a transition year.  new qb, new wrs, young defense.  not a shock to be a 4 loss team. 

the next two years are the critical years where they should be competing again for big ten titles.  they have lots of defensive talent and they should have an experienced better qb.

again, the key is the oline.  harbaugh has missed on some big oline recruits and its killing the team.  they have to get better up front on offense if they want to compete with osu.

Yeah the o-line is the big problem this year and question mark for next year

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

Yeah the o-line is the big problem this year and question mark for next year

theyre loaded on defense and at the skill positions (especially receiver).

i think theyre going to be really good the next two years.  the problem with next year is the schedule: osu nd and msu on the road.

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I am taking a wild guess that Scott Frost will be the next Harbaugh - the hero QB comes home as Head Coach.     Will he take Nebraska to a Big Ten championship game before Harbaugh?   Will PJ Fleck to it before Harbaugh.    Sure, they have an easier road but I just don't see much here.   I don't care about the inexperience - what makes me so angry is other teams have lost a lot of players and stepped up and won a game or two they shouldn't have.    Michigan is not doing that while still being arrogant.   Stop acting like the very fact that you are Michigan means anything to anyone under 50.   The kids playing for you and the ones you are recruiting have not seen a good Michigan program in their memory.   They were 8/9 years old for the last great Michigan/Ohio State game in 2006.     Michigan needs to start acting like the underdog they really are - they need to play with a chip on their shoulder..........like Dantonio's teams do.     Please just win a big one..........being close for half a game is not impressive.            

Plus complaining about your QB getting hurt as an excuse is ridiculous.  The reason he got hurt is that your receivers are so unbelievably bad that he had to hold the ball too long.......he had to try to do too much.   It's part of being a bad team.   I won't even fault the O-Line for that - they gave him time all day today but those WRs could not get open.    I respect Brandon Peters, that kid's got guts.   

They need to replace the offensive coaches, at least the ones that handle the passing game.   Pep Hamilton is awful 

 

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

theyre loaded on defense and at the skill positions (especially receiver).

i think theyre going to be really good the next two years.  the problem with next year is the schedule: osu nd and msu on the road.

I thought the o-line was pretty good today.   I disagree on the receivers - I think they are either highly overrated or very poorly coached.   It might be the latter.   I certainly hope Pep Hamilton is gone - they have the most inept passing game I've ever seen at Michigan.    

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

this was always a transition year.  new qb, new wrs, young defense.  not a shock to be a 4 loss team. 

the next two years are the critical years where they should be competing again for big ten titles.  they have lots of defensive talent and they should have an experienced better qb.

again, the key is the oline.  harbaugh has missed on some big oline recruits and its killing the team.  they have to get better up front on offense if they want to compete with osu.

Yeah, it is but please give me one signature win.   No way MSU should have come into your house and smacked you around.   MSU had the look of an angry one and Michigan looked complacent and arrogant.   Why they carry themselves that way, I don't know, they haven't won a thing in 20 years.   That's the cultural problem.       Passing 8 straight times with a shaky QB in a monsoon............what the **** was that?      Florida (so bad they fired their coach), Air Force, Cincinnati, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Minnesota and Indiana is not impressive at all.   You must beat a big boy at some point.    How many times have they beaten a top 10 team in the last decade - Twice ?      Upsetting OSU next week would help me feel better but I have no confidence in that happening and that would mean 1-5 vs. the rivals and the 1 being over a 3-9 team.    This can't keep happening year after year, coach after coach. 

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On 11/17/2017 at 3:05 PM, Buddha said:

this game should not be pretty for michigan.

then again, michigan is due for a big game where all the breaks go their way.  if this were in ann arbor i think michiga  could win.  but in madison?  versus the badgers and the inevitable crap calls from the big ten officials in a road game?

wiscy 27

michigan 12

 

close.

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2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I am taking a wild guess that Scott Frost will be the next Harbaugh - the hero QB comes home as Head Coach.     Will he take Nebraska to a Big Ten championship game before Harbaugh?   Will PJ Fleck to it before Harbaugh.    Sure, they have an easier road but I just don't see much here.   I don't care about the inexperience - what makes me so angry is other teams have lost a lot of players and stepped up and won a game or two they shouldn't have.    Michigan is not doing that while still being arrogant.   Stop acting like the very fact that you are Michigan means anything to anyone under 50.   The kids playing for you and the ones you are recruiting have not seen a good Michigan program in their memory.   They were 8/9 years old for the last great Michigan/Ohio State game in 2006.     Michigan needs to start acting like the underdog they really are - they need to play with a chip on their shoulder..........like Dantonio's teams do.     Please just win a big one..........being close for half a game is not impressive.            

Plus complaining about your QB getting hurt as an excuse is ridiculous.  The reason he got hurt is that your receivers are so unbelievably bad that he had to hold the ball too long.......he had to try to do too much.   It's part of being a bad team.   I won't even fault the O-Line for that - they gave him time all day today but those WRs could not get open.    I respect Brandon Peters, that kid's got guts.   

They need to replace the offensive coaches, at least the ones that handle the passing game.   Pep Hamilton is awful 

 

if michigan were in the big ten west they would have been in multiple big ten championship games already.

funny to see michigan fans turn on harbaugh so quickly.  how soon they forget.

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51 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if michigan were in the big ten west they would have been in multiple big ten championship games already.

funny to see michigan fans turn on harbaugh so quickly.  how soon they forget.

Seriously, it's total B.S.  Harbaugh hasn't succeeded yet but this isn't RichRod either.  If they don't beat the better teams next year then we have a problem.

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So the East Division is really tough, eh?    Well, that hasn't stopped MSU, OSU and PSU from winning it.      That's what we're doing now?   "If we were in the West"?    That's really pathetic.  That's weak.       If only the Tigers were in the International League !

But our QB got hurt.    (got hurt because your WRs can't get open)

But it was a road game  (didn't stop MSU from beating us)

But we're inexperienced  (so is MSU and their QB had less than both of our top 2)

But it was raining (MSU played in the same rain as you did)

But we were tied at Madison at the half (60 minute game, not 30).

1-4 vs. The Rivals.    0-3 at home.    

And yes, it's that MSU game that broke me this year.   They came into Michigan Stadium and clowned us, they punched us right in the face and we just stood there and took it.    Had no answer.   They came into that game chewing glass,  we acted like they were an annoyance................See, that's the difference right now.   That arrogance - based on nothing.      I didn't come into this season expecting to beat Penn State or Wisconsin on the road, but I expected them to look better losing.   At some point they are going to have to have 1 or 2 of those kind of wins on the road to justify all that talk.     Next year their 3 rivals are on the road and I expect the other teams to be much more fired up because that seems to be the trend.    Do you really think they'll go at least 2-1 in those games next year?   

Hey,  what happened on September 16, 2006  ?  

That was the last time Michigan beat a ranked team on the road.   

That's a staggeringly embarrassing statistic for a team that acts as arrogant as Michigan.  

That's why I am so pissed off this season.  

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8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

So the East Division is really tough, eh?    Well, that hasn't stopped MSU, OSU and PSU from winning it.      That's what we're doing now?   "If we were in the West"?    That's really pathetic.  That's weak.       If only the Tigers were in the International League !

But our QB got hurt.    (got hurt because your WRs can't get open)

But it was a road game  (didn't stop MSU from beating us)

But we're inexperienced  (so is MSU and their QB had less than both of our top 2)

But it was raining (MSU played in the same rain as you did)

But we were tied at Madison at the half (60 minute game, not 30).

1-4 vs. The Rivals.    0-3 at home.    

And yes, it's that MSU game that broke me this year.   They came into Michigan Stadium and clowned us, they punched us right in the face and we just stood there and took it.    Had no answer.   They came into that game chewing glass,  we acted like they were an annoyance................See, that's the difference right now.   That arrogance - based on nothing.      I didn't come into this season expecting to beat Penn State or Wisconsin on the road, but I expected them to look better losing.   At some point they are going to have to have 1 or 2 of those kind of wins on the road to justify all that talk.     Next year their 3 rivals are on the road and I expect the other teams to be much more fired up because that seems to be the trend.    Do you really think they'll go at least 2-1 in those games next year?   

Hey,  what happened on September 16, 2006  ?  

That was the last time Michigan beat a ranked team on the road.   

That's a staggeringly embarrassing statistic for a team that acts as arrogant as Michigan.  

That's why I am so pissed off this season.  

I won't argue the team's play has been underwhelming since Harbaugh got here but I would question your take on the arrogance issue. Michigan *fan* may be arrogant-particularly older MI fan, but where are you picking that up from the program under Harbaugh? Aside from his early foray's into twitterdom, JH and the program seem to have been the model of decorum and restraint as far as I read it. They don't trash talk or disrespect opponents - other than going after the facilities at Purdue, which was justified. They generally play a clean game on the field. Harbaugh is trying new stuff, some of it edgy like the camps in enemy territory, but that's hardly arrogant. If anything it's recognizing that they no longer have any built in advantages. Do they try to use their legacy to their PR advantage - of course, every school does to whatever degree they can and it would be marketing malfeasance not to,

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The fundamental issue is Harbaugh was hyped as a savior for the program and, rightly or wrongly, expectations were heightened as a consequence.

For me, the question is, and always has been, what is the next best alternative to Harbaugh if UM wishes to move on?

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37 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I won't argue the team's play has been underwhelming since Harbaugh got here but I would question your take on the arrogance issue. Michigan *fan* may be arrogant-particularly older MI fan, but where are you picking that up from the program under Harbaugh? Aside from his early foray's into twitterdom, JH and the program seem to have been the model of decorum and restraint as far as I read it. They don't trash talk or disrespect opponents - other than going after the facilities at Purdue, which was justified. They generally play a clean game on the field. Harbaugh is trying new stuff, some of it edgy like the camps in enemy territory, but that's hardly arrogant. If anything it's recognizing that they no longer have any built in advantages. Do they try to use their legacy to their PR advantage - of course, every school does to whatever degree they can and it would be marketing malfeasance not to,

Don't bother bro, MCS is in his talk show radio fire guns at the big guy mode. 

Harbaugh has not lived up to the hype, but the hype exceeds the reality of how it hard how hard it is to build a top-notch college football program.

I have pretty high expectations of UM football that haven't been met in a long time but are not ridiculous for a top notch coach/program/resources...

...compete for the Big Ten title, beat MSU and OSU more often than they beat us, and play in a BCS Bowl every couple of years.  

Some folks will be haters until U of M win 3 national championships in a row...and even then....

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The fundamental issue is Harbaugh was hyped as a savior for the program and, rightly or wrongly, expectations were heightened as a consequence.

For me, the question is, and always has been, what is the next best alternative to Harbaugh if UM wishes to move on?

Right.....I mean it may be that JH isn't all that hes cracked up to be.....but do we want to be one of those programs that keeps trying on head coaches like new shoes, creating the typical two to four-year transition problems and Dallas Cowboys drama?

I'd rather give JH a good long time (5-10 yrs) to figure it out rather than be on the merry-go-round of coaching transitions.

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This program was completely in the toliet before JH got here. Tickets were being given away free with the purchase of soft drinks, for crying out loud. A little perspective is in order. 

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5 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

This program was completely in the toliet before JH got here. Tickets were being given away free with the purchase of soft drinks, for crying out loud. A little perspective is in order. 

Not to say anything bad about Harbaugh, but Dave Brandon was the worst.

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31 minutes ago, stanpapi said:

This program was completely in the toliet before JH got here. Tickets were being given away free with the purchase of soft drinks, for crying out loud. A little perspective is in order. 

truth.

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This season has established that a down year will be 8-4. Harbaugh has the program back, at minimum, to where it was under Lloyd in his final years and they'll be a consistently top 10 to top 25 team.

He was hyped, though, as a savior to equal OSU or surpass them but there's really nothing yet to suggest that will happen and I think that is where the angst is coming from. They aren't recruiting at OSU's level so they'll have to be better at player development and have a schematic advantage.  It seems like his offense, at the collegiate level, is very complex and could be very difficult to defend but it may need a Luck-type player to be elite. On the other hand, OSU's offense and those like it seem like it is more plug and play. 

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