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Ron Gardenhire is your new Tiger manager

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Meaning Kapler wanted more analytics than the Tigers were willing to provide?

I hope they get this working by the time they are good.  

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12 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

like so many other have said, it does not really matter who the manager is until later

but I was watching the Cubs-Dodgers series, and every bullpen shot of the Dodgers showed a bullpen coach reading from a binder talking to the reliever warming up about the batters Dave Roberts was going to have him face. Sometimes they actually went over to look at the charts/data, pointing to it and having a discussion about how to pitch to certain players. This seems to be one clear way data can provide an edge to a team. Don't know how effective it is as the Dodger bullpen is really talented. 

This just seems like a no brainer to me.  Know exactly where a guys weak spots are at and exploit them.  Know this well ahead of time.

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1 hour ago, djhutch said:

I think the anti-analytics part of it is overblown a bit with Gardenhire.  The organization is moving in that direction, in terms of filling out rosters & how they spend their cash.  Perhaps it may inform decisions when filling out line-up cards, but not in game decisions.  I think Gardy will do a better job in game, & the organization as a whole will get better when it comes to analytics.  Yes they'll be bottom feeders next season, but I don't think it will take as long as people think.  Avila did a nice job filling the roster with young talent from the trades.

I agree, the manager is not constantly go over analytics. He is keeping in touch with the players, explaining fundamentals to the youngsters, who needs to work on what, a compliment, a kick in the butt, knowing the injury situations, managing the games, media interviews, etc., etc... The analytics would seem to be data gathering from other club personnel to make decisions about what you said: player personnel/acquisitions, potential player ability, what players to be put in what situations to succeed (match-ups), etc... Then the manager (and the coaching staff) have access to this data (analytics) to perhaps help 'some' in-game moves... I think he would not have been hired if he were not open to this idea and being in AZ for the past season has introduced him even more so to this process/idea... and it may not take as long 3-4 years as some think. Teams can move forward or backward quickly depending on how quickly a 'group' of younger players develop... With that said 2018 will be tough.

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I would say able, but potentially willing.  If you've heard anything about his development philosophies, it's possible the type of analytics he wants are too personal: i.e. tracking sleep/personal habits, that may bring about some ethical issues.  There's a lot of grey area there, and that comes into play with political analytics.

Again, I do not want to say that was the problem, but it's a possibility that type of disconnect is out there.

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42 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Does it really matter how into analytics the manager is?  He's not the one crunching numbers.  He receives the data.  

Yes and no... I can see there being issues if the Front Office is signing/drafting based on analytics and Gardenhire doesn't like the players and tries to avoid playing them, but I don't see that being a huge issue... there's only so many guys on a team, you'll have to eventually play them.

I don't think there's going to be TOO much in game decisions that come down to analytics.  Some things, like defensive shifts, or knowing pitcher-A drops off significantly in his effectiveness after the 3rd time through... Those things are important. 

But I think too much nit-gritty worry about things like: This player is 0-3 against this pitcher in day games... Or player X has a 3 of 5 hitting record against reliefer Y... those are areas where the super small sample size can make the number lie.

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Player development is the #1 area where analytics impacts teams. If you think analytics means looking up a guy's OPS before inking a big contract, think again.

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Just now, Edman85 said:

Player development is the #1 area where analytics impacts teams. If you think analytics means looking up a guy's OPS before inking a big contract, think again.

Well, I didn't think the later, but with the former: At what level are we talking?  When I think "Player Development" I'm thinking the minors, which Gardenhire wouldn't really effect too much of, right?

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14 hours ago, stanpapi said:

The team will not go anywhere for several years. It really doesn't matter if he's the best manager for the job. He can be our ralph houk and that will be fine. If he ends up being better than that, good for everyone. 

I agree. It's going to be several years of rebuilding and that's if the prospects actually turn into quality players. No guarantees there, it may be many more years if everything doesn't go perfectly.

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Honestly, this hire bums me out because I don't like Ron Gardenhire.  There is a part of me that almost wishes they committed fully and somehow hired Dusty Baker.

I will irrationally hate on Ron, but will try to make my posts sound rational and sound with that hatred buried underneath when criticizing him.

That is the best that I can promise at this time.

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We just don't get it.  Ron Gardenhire is coming to Detroit to toil away like Larry Darrell in the coal mines or the Ashram to see the meaning of life.  Don't count your beloved Tigers as that plum of a job until they earn it through toil and sweat. 

One day Ron Gardenhire will find the meaning of his secret journey. 

Here he is

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I hate the hire but there is always the possibility he dies before the season starts.

To clarify, I do not seriously wish for him to die.

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12 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Well, I didn't think the later, but with the former: At what level are we talking?  When I think "Player Development" I'm thinking the minors, which Gardenhire wouldn't really effect too much of, right?

He'll probably get some suggestions on what batter to use against what pitcher, and vice-versa. And of course how to position the defense. Hopefully some data about how this guy has good numbers but his stuff has taken a step down lately. And vice-versa. That's about the only in-game decisions.

The coaches will hopefully use data to get pitchers to throw more or less of certain pitches, use the cameras to look at things like bat paths, pitch releases, launch angles. Now stuff is easier to work with in the minors because guys can mess around with mechanical changes in games and losing doesn't really matter. But you still need to do it at the MLB level too--tweaking guys that are successful and trying to get a lesser player to breakout.

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1 hour ago, pyrotigers said:

If only his name were Ron Gardendonthire this never would have happened

I wonder if he is going to be the new Phil Garner where fans keep calling him Gardner.  

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58 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

The coaches will hopefully use data to get pitchers to throw more or less of certain pitches, use the cameras to look at things like bat paths, pitch releases, launch angles. 

yeah, these are the new areas which are becoming more important.  If it's true the Tigers are not quite there yet, I would suspect it is these areas.    

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

So, entirely new coaching staff or will there be a few holdovers? 

 

I don't think this as a big of deal as in other sports, but I would think you'd like a holdover. Just to have someone the players know and knows certain routines even for a year. It could be someone like the bullpen coach or in our case here, I'd guess Omar. Someone without a ton of ties to the old head coach/manager but knows the organization. That is why in football you someone like the running back or corner coach stay on. Just to bridge the staffs.

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2 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

yeah, these are the new areas which are becoming more important.  If it's true the Tigers are not quite there yet, I would suspect it is these areas.    

That's why I was on-board the Kapler train--he might have moved that forward several years.

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Not sure I understand the blowback on this hire.  We're not winning anytime soon and the manager of the MLB team is the least important part of any organizations analytical process.  We're going to have a young team and he has experience in that, so i'm guessing that is what was determined to be the most important characteristic.

As for Kapler indicating he would not have accepted the job if it was offered over analytics, that's what seems worrisome to me.  Makes me wonder if he just doesn't think we're up to speed enough, or worse, does it mean he just didn't think we were pursuing enough.

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2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Not sure I understand the blowback on this hire.  We're not winning anytime soon and the manager of the MLB team is the least important part of any organizations analytical process.  We're going to have a young team and he has experience in that, so i'm guessing that is what was determined to be the most important characteristic.

As for Kapler indicating he would not have accepted the job if it was offered over analytics, that's what seems worrisome to me.  Makes me wonder if he just doesn't think we're up to speed enough, or worse, does it mean he just didn't think we were pursuing enough.

eh? Kapler rejected a job as a coach on the Dodgers staff. I don't think the Tigers ever contacted him.

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1 minute ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

eh? Kapler rejected a job as a coach on the Dodgers staff. I don't think the Tigers ever contacted him.

d'oh, just read back on a few posts and saw Edman mention Kapler, took that as it was with the Tigers.

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7 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Not sure I understand the blowback on this hire.  We're not winning anytime soon and the manager of the MLB team is the least important part of any organizations analytical process.  We're going to have a young team and he has experience in that, so i'm guessing that is what was determined to be the most important characteristic.

As for Kapler indicating he would not have accepted the job if it was offered over analytics, that's what seems worrisome to me.  Makes me wonder if he just doesn't think we're up to speed enough, or worse, does it mean he just didn't think we were pursuing enough.

I think most support the hire, so I don't think there is really much blowback.

But to the extent there is blowback, well, Ron didn't appear to run his teams in the past using analytics, so I, for one, am not expecting it now despite assertions to the contrary.  I expect to see much more bunting than I care to see.

And he looks like a garden gnome.

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7 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Not sure I understand the blowback on this hire.  We're not winning anytime soon and the manager of the MLB team is the least important part of any organizations analytical process.  We're going to have a young team and he has experience in that, so i'm guessing that is what was determined to be the most important characteristic.

As for Kapler indicating he would not have accepted the job if it was offered over analytics, that's what seems worrisome to me.  Makes me wonder if he just doesn't think we're up to speed enough, or worse, does it mean he just didn't think we were pursuing enough.

If the field manager at the major league level does not support the use of analytics (which may or may not be true), what message does that send to downstream managers, coaches, and players,  and the front office analytic staff?

 

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I once ran into Gabe Kapler at a wave runner rental in St.Petersburg (not Russia).  He was reading Shakespeare's Julius Cesar.  His companions were two very attractive dark haired ladies wearing black dive vests and bikini bottoms.   He referred to one of the ladies as Shasta and the other as Destiny.   While he was there he instructed the wave runner owner that he could maximize his rentals if he extended the rental period during off-peak hours and allowed incremental rentals during peak hours to satisfy turnover demand.  He had Destiny run the numbers on a laptop she went and got from the van. 

Turns out that Kapler's advice was never proven because the wave runner guy was killed by Russian gangsters.  Kapler had Shasta and Destiny extract revenge from the gangster's family. 

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