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The Official 2017-2018 Detroit Tigers Off-season Thread

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Hardy cleared waivers and has been outrighted off the 40 man roster. That opens up a spot for Goodrum.

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9 hours ago, kdog said:

Hardy cleared waivers and has been outrighted off the 40 man roster. That opens up a spot for Goodrum.

I'm glad to hear it.  Too bad for Hardy, but I like what I've seen/read about Goodrum, someone I'd never heard of 2 months ago.

Goodrum is an odd fit for this team, he seems more suited to a team of aging sluggers who need defensive replacement, which these guys are most certainly not.  On a team like the early '90's Tigers with dinosaurs up and down the lineup (5 guys over 30, plus Clydesdales Fielder and Incaviglia) a guy like Skeeter Barnes could make a living playing 6 spots (he didn't play short or catcher).  That was a really unique roster with 2 Swiss Army knives, Tony Phillips and Skeeter. 

That's what I'm hoping for with Goodrum, a switch-hitting Skeeter Barnes, with the ability to hit lefthanded adding some value and giving him some additional opportunities.

And, in whatever threads(s) we were counting up guys who were Expos and Tigers, we need to add Skeeter Barnes.

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10 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I'm glad to hear it.  Too bad for Hardy, but I like what I've seen/read about Goodrum, someone I'd never heard of 2 months ago.

Goodrum is an odd fit for this team, he seems more suited to a team of aging sluggers who need defensive replacement, which these guys are most certainly not.  On a team like the early '90's Tigers with dinosaurs up and down the lineup (5 guys over 30, plus Clydesdales Fielder and Incaviglia) a guy like Skeeter Barnes could make a living playing 6 spots (he didn't play short or catcher).  That was a really unique roster with 2 Swiss Army knives, Tony Phillips and Skeeter. 

That's what I'm hoping for with Goodrum, a switch-hitting Skeeter Barnes, with the ability to hit lefthanded adding some value and giving him some additional opportunities.

And, in whatever threads(s) we were counting up guys who were Expos and Tigers, we need to add Skeeter Barnes.

Skee-ter!  Definite crowd favorite during his days as a Mud Hen.

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Here's your entertaining Al Avila Quote of the Day:

How will the Tigers find at-bats for both Reyes and outfielder JaCoby Jones, who also appears likely to make the club?

"Gardy seems to have a good idea of how to do this, no different with Reyes," Avila said. "We'll see how it works. He'll make the final decisions."

Avila said Jones is an elite defensive center fielder and could be a "perennial All-Star" if he can hit at the big-league level. So far he hasn't been able to do so.

"If he doesn't hit, he's probably an extra outfielder," Avila said. 

To reiterate: Al Avila says that JaCoby Jones is an "elite" defender who could be a "perennial All-Star" if he could hit big league pitching. Or he could be an extra outfielder. One or the other.

In 390-2/3 big league innings, Fangraphs rates Jones as a center fielder with average range but a poor arm and a slightly below average glove. If we project his numbers to rank him among qualified CFs last year, Jones would be 10th of 18 in range, 14th in arm, and 12th in error rate.

Jones is also hitting .178/.236/.278  with a 34 wRC+ in 182 trips to the plate.

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24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Here's your entertaining Al Avila Quote of the Day:

How will the Tigers find at-bats for both Reyes and outfielder JaCoby Jones, who also appears likely to make the club?

"Gardy seems to have a good idea of how to do this, no different with Reyes," Avila said. "We'll see how it works. He'll make the final decisions."

Avila said Jones is an elite defensive center fielder and could be a "perennial All-Star" if he can hit at the big-league level. So far he hasn't been able to do so.

"If he doesn't hit, he's probably an extra outfielder," Avila said. 

To reiterate: Al Avila says that JaCoby Jones is an "elite" defender who could be a "perennial All-Star" if he could hit big league pitching. Or he could be an extra outfielder. One or the other.

In 390-2/3 big league innings, Fangraphs rates Jones as a center fielder with average range but a poor arm and a slightly below average glove. If we project his numbers to rank him among qualified CFs last year, Jones would be 10th of 18 in range, 14th in arm, and -12th in error rate.

Jones is also hitting .178/.236/.278  with a 34 wRC+ in 182 trips to the plate.

I'm think I'm done nitpicking everything Avila says. He probably knows the outcome here but doesn't want to kill the kid.

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12 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I'm glad to hear it.  Too bad for Hardy, but I like what I've seen/read about Goodrum, someone I'd never heard of 2 months ago.

Goodrum is an odd fit for this team, he seems more suited to a team of aging sluggers who need defensive replacement, which these guys are most certainly not.  On a team like the early '90's Tigers with dinosaurs up and down the lineup (5 guys over 30, plus Clydesdales Fielder and Incaviglia) a guy like Skeeter Barnes could make a living playing 6 spots (he didn't play short or catcher).  That was a really unique roster with 2 Swiss Army knives, Tony Phillips and Skeeter. 

That's what I'm hoping for with Goodrum, a switch-hitting Skeeter Barnes, with the ability to hit lefthanded adding some value and giving him some additional opportunities.

And, in whatever threads(s) we were counting up guys who were Expos and Tigers, we need to add Skeeter Barnes.

I think he's a great fit.   Can play anywhere and he's a switch hitter?    I love it.  He gives them all sorts of flexibility

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2 minutes ago, kdog said:

I'm think I'm done nitpicking everything Avila says. He probably knows the outcome here but doesn't want to kill the kid.

Instead of the Dale Carnegie training course, he took the Randy Smith course.     One time potential perennial All Star Craig Paquette was his tutor.  

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Jacoby Jones hit a homer!!

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Jacoby Jones is either going to be the White Willie Mays, or dead in a ditch by the end of the year. Those are the only possible outcomes to his career

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Avila is not a slick talker and I don't think it is necessary to nitpick everything he says.  Just because he didn't mention the in between possibilities does not mean he thinks Jones is either going to be a superstar or a scrub.  

Personally, I think there is virtually no chance Jones will hit well enough to be a superstar, but I think his defensive skills and versatility give him a chance to be a decent role player.

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On 3/21/2018 at 4:04 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

if we had had park factors when Koufax played, it would have been a knock on him for sure as Dodger Stadium is about the most consistently pitcher friendly park year to year. Still, Koufax's level of dominance wasn't matched by many other guys - Bob Gibson for a couple of years in his prime I suppose, 

pedro in his prime was more dominant than koufax and gibson.  and he pitched against a DH in the steroid era in a hitters park.

pedro from 97-03 is the most dominant pitcher i've ever seen and i would argue the most dominant pitcher in baseball history.  pedro in 2000 is the best year ever by a starter, imo.  followed closely by pedro in 1999.

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30 minutes ago, Buddha said:

pedro in his prime was more dominant than koufax and gibson.  and he pitched against a DH in the steroid era in a hitters park.

pedro from 97-03 is the most dominant pitcher i've ever seen and i would argue the most dominant pitcher in baseball history.  pedro in 2000 is the best year ever by a starter, imo.  followed closely by pedro in 1999.

Yup. Pedro is up there with the absolute best. And of course he was a 1st ballot HOF'er so it wasn't like no-one had noticed!

Of course Pedro's best years were during some of the Tiger's darkest, so at least personally, while I knew about what he was doing, I wasn't watching that much baseball. Pedro also stuck around until he was pretty pedestrian. It is kinda of amusing to think of Koufax pitching until his ERA was pushing 5.00 and wonder how much that would color memories of him. No question going out on top is the best way to protect your legacy - if that is what is important to you!

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Jacoby was told yesterday that he's made the team.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Avila is not a slick talker and I don't think it is necessary to nitpick everything he says. 

 

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I guess 2018 is a good year for low expectations of chief executives.

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Just now, chasfh said:

I guess 2018 is a good year for low expectations of chief executives.

I don't think a GM needs to be a slick public speaker.  It helps with PR, but he can still be a good GM without polished public speaking skills.  That's not to say I think he's a good GM though.  

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I just find interesting the idea, “aw, come on, chas, lay off the poor guy, Al Avila’s not much of a talker and we shouldn’t be nitpicking him when he says stuff because he’s not good at it.” That’s the kind of leeway you would give someone you have low expectations for.

Al Avila wanted to be The Boss. He wanted to be the guy who goes on TV to talk about the team. OK, Al, that’s fine, so go ahead. But he has to take the heat when he says ridiculous or illogical things. He can’t expect people to rush to his defense like he’s some damsel in distress. Or maybe he can, who knows. 

I might be alone on this, but I don’t like the idea of a chief executive at Comerica Park who needs protection from big meanies on sports forums, or in the media, or wherever, because he’s not good at talking words. If he can’t hack the crucial role of being the eloquent and articulate voice of the franchise and its vision for the future, then maybe he should go back to being a super scout. (Personally, I think he probably should, anyway.)

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Or it is the kind of leeway someone gives another if they don't think the issue being discussed is important.  PR is not the most important part of the job.

And I don't know as that he wanted to be the guy to go on TV.  Maybe that is a part of the job that he isn't keen on, but he does it because it is necessary and he does want to be GM.

Lastly, I also don't know as that he expects people to come to his defense, and I don't know as that he has said ridiculous things, though to be fair, I haven't heard the most recent Jacoby Jones quotes.  And I don't think he needs protection.  Protection from whom?

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13 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I just find interesting the idea, “aw, come on, chas, lay off the poor guy, Al Avila’s not much of a talker and we shouldn’t be nitpicking him when he says stuff because he’s not good at it.” That’s the kind of leeway you would give someone you have low expectations for.

Al Avila wanted to be The Boss. He wanted to be the guy who goes on TV to talk about the team. OK, Al, that’s fine, so go ahead. But he has to take the heat when he says ridiculous or illogical things. He can’t expect people to rush to his defense like he’s some damsel in distress. Or maybe he can, who knows. 

I might be alone on this, but I don’t like the idea of a chief executive at Comerica Park who needs protection from big meanies on sports forums, or in the media, or wherever, because he’s not good at talking words. If he can’t hack the crucial role of being the eloquent and articulate voice of the franchise and its vision for the future, then maybe he should go back to being a super scout. (Personally, I think he probably should, anyway.)

When he makes a questionable move he should be questioned.  I just don't see the point in nitpicking something he said when he probably means something different.  Beyond that, I agree with what Bigglesworth said.  

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Honestly, I don't know what Al Avila is good at. He was a key part of the executive team that ran the franchise into the rocks. He's been the point man of a draft that's been bad for years. He's shown he's not particularly good at trades. He ignored all the good free agents that could have been had at bargain basement prices this offseason. He's not demonstrated that he's been effective at overseeing the implementation of analytics. He has no track record taking a team through a rebuild. He's not good in front of a microphone, which in the 21st Century media-everywhere world is a very important part of the job. So why is this guy general manager of my favorite team, again?

I'm rooting for him to turn it all around. Come on, Al, show us what you got.

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