Jump to content

Motor City Sonics

The 2017 Post-Mortem

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, Longgone said:

He went to Arizona prior to Ray being traded there.

I vaguely remember this now. Was it a scout? Tigers' loss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, irvink said:

I vaguely remember this now. Was it a scout? Tigers' loss.

Mike Russell, he's back with the Tigers now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Shelton said:

Scherzer is basically it. 

We will see how Norris and Boyd turn out. 

If Scherzer is it, that's a big it.

I know you do not like AJax, but he was very productive for the Tigers his first few years and arguably deserved the ROY.

Don't forget Fulmer and his ROY.

Edit:  Didn't mean to pile on, sorry.  Should have seen this post was almost a day old before responding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/1/2017 at 7:44 PM, Jason_R said:


Serious question, as I don’t live in Detroit: What has Chris Ilitch done to indicate the family may sell the team, apart from signing off on Avila’s rebuild of a team that has a bloated payroll but missed its window?

Clearly the family is committed to Detroit, and the Wings, with Little Caesar’s Arena. Would they sell the Tigers but keep the Wings? Is there suspicion (I’ve never read it) that they need to sell the Tigers to fund the arena?

Or is this argument that they are going to sell the Tigers just frustration that they didn’t want to keep throwing money after a failing franchise?

When Marion I. passes, there will be a huge tax bill due. Parts of the Empire may have to be sold, with the Tigers being the most likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HeyAbbott said:

When Marion I. passes, there will be a huge tax bill due. Parts of the Empire may have to be sold, with the Tigers being the most likely.

Interesting... Is that reported somewhere? I'm always interested to learn more about these business issues.

PS: Your screen name reminds me that one of the Detroit networks used to play Abbott and Costello movies on Sunday afternoons when I was a kid. Good memories!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

When Marion I. passes, there will be a huge tax bill due. Parts of the Empire may have to be sold, with the Tigers being the most likely.

That's more internet talk than anything. Federal tax allows you to spread it out. And the family has long had a succession plan that likely addressed this issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only issue would be the ownership of casinos. There would have to be divestment there. (Is that Denise’s inheritance?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2017 at 9:33 AM, Keepleyland2 said:

That's more internet talk than anything. Federal tax allows you to spread it out. And the family has long had a succession plan that likely addressed this issue. 

We will have to wait and see. The Hunt family sold the Kansas City Chiefs to cover taxes many years ago. It would not be a surprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HeyAbbott said:

The real question remains is how interesting this team will be on the field in 2018.

If by interesting, you mean terrible, then theyll be very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

The real question remains is how interesting this team will be on the field in 2018.

There will be interesting aspects, such as if Fulmer returns fully healthy, what Cabrera can do, the development of guys like Candelario, Mahtook, Castellanos.  But the team as a whole will be dreadful unless the pitching makes a quantum leap up the spectrum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

We will have to wait and see. The Hunt family sold the Kansas City Chiefs to cover taxes many years ago. It would not be a surprise.

Perhaps you should let the Hunts know about this?  They're still acting as if they own the Chiefs.   Why even the NFL thinks they do.

Amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs

Quote

The franchise was founded in 1959 by Lamar Hunt after a failed attempt by Hunt to purchase an NFL franchise and relocate them to Texas.[105] remained the team's owner until his death in 2006.[105] The Hunt family kept ownership of the team following Lamar's death and Clark Hunt, Lamar's son, represents the family's interests.[5][60][106][107] While Hunt's official title is Chairman of the Board, he serves as the franchise's de factoowner.[106][107] In 2010, Hunt assumed role as CEO alongside his role as Chairman of the Board.[108] According to Forbes, the team is valued at just under $1 billion and ranks 20th among NFL teams in 2010.[5]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

Chris Illitch is the owner.  Period. 

Exactly, at least we know Marion has no ownership in them as she owns the Casinos.  Add that to the fact that the Estate Tax may be eliminated and this is a complete non issue.  It doesn't mean they won't sell the team, but it won't be because they are forced to to pay a tax bill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

Perhaps you should let the Hunts know about this?  They're still acting as if they own the Chiefs.   Why even the NFL thinks they do.

Amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs

 

He probably means, I think, the Rams back in the 90s. It has happened that teams sold to pay taxes, most times there are plans in place. If it was as common as Abbott makes it out to be you'd rarely see any large business stay in family hands because the tax burden is so high. As we know that's just not true. 

There are various things that can be done to reduce and spread out the bill. Even if Chris just does the obvious stuff he can probably get whatever tax bill down to $20 million a year for a decade. Spread out over all of Olympia that's nothing. If he just takes the money from the Tigers that costs us one Zimmerman. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am willing to bet large sums of money with little return and zero insider information that the Ilitchs have adequately planned their estate / inheritance issues when Marion passes.

This is just concern trolling, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I am willing to bet large sums of money with little return and zero insider information that the Ilitchs have adequately planned their estate / inheritance issues when Marion passes.

This is just concern trolling, IMO.

Yeah I think they worked that out... still doesn't mean there can't be problems.  Bill Davidson's estate was sued by the IRS and they had to settle.  There's a lot of things that go on with something like this.  His issue had to do with valuation of the franchise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2015/07/08/irs-grabs-388-million-from-billionaire-davidson-estate/#1492e0087de7

 

There were two main issues that led to the deficiencies. The IRS said the estate undervalued corporate stock and improperly valued self-cancelling installment notes (SCINs). As to the stock, the IRS said that the estate low-balled the value of privately held Guardian stock held in trust for Davidson’s children and grandchildren. You always need to pay attention to valuations of assets like privately-held stock or real estate or art for gift and estate tax purposes.

 

And as to the SCINs, they are legitimate tax planning devices, but there’s wiggle-room in how you structure them. The IRS called into question the calculations used and said Davidson was essentially making taxable gifts he should have reported. The IRS takes a tough stance on how you value the notes and what you have to do to establish that it’s a fair exchange of assets for the notes, says Andrew DeMaio, an estate lawyer in Red Bank, N.J. “In a sense, it’s a loss for the estate planning community in that we don’t get a ruling on these SCIN valuation issues,” he says.

It’s not just billionaires who face these battles, but multi-million-dollar estates with hard-to-value assets and those that take advantage of legitimate but cutting edge estate planning techniques like SCINs. Even estates under the estate exclusion amount of $5.43 million per person may need to file estate tax returns, and face unlimited audit times for hard-to-value assets: see IRS To Allow Do-Overs For Some Small Estates.

 

Regarding Marian... the way it was explained before there's two ways to look at it.. baseball allows a casino owner to own a team but they can't be involved directly, via voting, etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I don’t see why this is even a concern, even if there could be issues with a potential estate tax. Even if they aren’t able to structure things to avoid a big tax bill and for some reason had to sell, I don’t care. If some other billionaire buys the team, big deal. 

I will worry about the effect on the tigers, wings, or other ilitch properties when there is an actual effect to worry about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎09 at 1:17 PM, Keepleyland2 said:

If he just takes the money from the Tigers that costs us one Zimmerman. 

If it were to happen this year I wonder if we could just give Zimmermann to the IRS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Charles Liston said:

If it were to happen this year I wonder if we could just give Zimmermann to the IRS?

Think of all the great baseball tax cheats. If we gave Zimmermann to the IRS they might be able to round out their pitching staff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×