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Deleterious

Report: Pistons ‘Found Little Interest’ in Andre Drummond on Trade Market

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The Drummond extension, how it was handled, is still very confusing to me.

He's not the type of player you just hand a max deal to without any negotiations.  And that is exactly what SVG and the Pistons did here.  They should have let him negotiate with other teams and let the market set his price.  Maybe he would've received a max offer and at that point you probably bite the bullet and match.  But to just hand him a max deal without the market setting that price is bad management.  

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12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

The Drummond extension, how it was handled, is still very confusing to me.

He's not the type of player you just hand a max deal to without any negotiations.  And that is exactly what SVG and the Pistons did here.  They should have let him negotiate with other teams and let the market set his price.  Maybe he would've received a max offer and at that point you probably bite the bullet and match.  But to just hand him a max deal without the market setting that price is bad management.  

compare to how the kcp situation went down.  they gave andre everything AND more.  

owner influence?  

i dont think the pistons are very well run.

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I think, and I could be wrong, that the negotiations were done the year before when they convinced him to wait a year to sign the extension.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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Between the Drummond signing, getting nothing for Monroe and KCP and the Smith stretch buyout, that's 4 pretty enormous screw ups. Not to mention the poor drafting. 

I've been a backer of Stan the GM and he has made a lot of good trades but the bad seems to outweigh the good thus far. 

How a budding star in Drummond can from all that promise to having no trade value in the matter of a few years is beyond me.  Part of that is on Andre but a lot falls on poor coaching and the max contract although it could be argued that he didn't have much of a choice but to pay Andre.

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The writing was on the wall, really. Many on this board were debating who was more valuable to build around - Dre or Monroe. And even after that, many on here were saying to trade him while his value was high for various reasons that are too numerous to list right now. SVG waited too long, gave him a big contract, and now the secret is out. He is what he is.

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32 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Between the Drummond signing, getting nothing for Monroe and KCP and the Smith stretch buyout, that's 4 pretty enormous screw ups. Not to mention the poor drafting. 

I've been a backer of Stan the GM and he has made a lot of good trades but the bad seems to outweigh the good thus far. 

How a budding star in Drummond can from all that promise to having no trade value in the matter of a few years is beyond me.  Part of that is on Andre but a lot falls on poor coaching and the max contract although it could be argued that he didn't have much of a choice but to pay Andre.

They had a choice.  Like my original post said, they could have let him test the market and see what offers he gets.  Andre Drummond, even with his inflated fan value, isn't the type of player you just hand a max deal to without the market setting that price.  Anthony Davis is a guy you hand a max deal to no questions asked, but not Drummond.  

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8 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

The writing was on the wall, really. Many on this board were debating who was more valuable to build around - Dre or Monroe. And even after that, many on here were saying to trade him while his value was high for various reasons that are too numerous to list right now. SVG waited too long, gave him a big contract, and now the secret is out. He is what he is.

How many times has a premier rebounder with unlimited potential still in his early 20s been traded?

I'm not a Drummond fan and have always questioned his desire to improve but Stan would have had a lot of egg on his face had he traded Drummond a couple of years ago and Drummond went on to succeed elsewhere. 

I don't remember too many people picking Monroe over Drummond in Monroe's final year here, most people were ready to move on from Monroe at that point and Drummond was still at the sky high potential stage.

I'm not arguing that the contract is a mistake,  Just saying that the alternatives weren't too attractive either.  In retrospect, Stan probably should have dealt him when he had value but GMs see the same flaws that we see with lack of effort being the biggest one so not sure how fruitful that trade market was even a couple of years ago.

 

 

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Just now, NYLion said:

How many times has a premier rebounder with unlimited potential still in his early 20s been traded?

I'm not a Drummond fan and have always questioned his desire to improve but Stan would have had a lot of egg on his face had he traded Drummond a couple of years ago and Drummond went on to succeed elsewhere. 

I don't remember too many people picking Monroe over Drummond in Monroe's final year here, most people were ready to move on from Monroe at that point and Drummond was still at the sky high potential stage.

I'm not arguing that the contract is a mistake,  Just saying that the alternatives weren't too attractive either.

I have never viewed him as a player with unlimited potential.  He has always been a freak of nature athletically with almost no basketball skills.  

And I'm not saying I would have let him walk if he got a max offer, I probably do end up matching it.  My problem is they didn't test the market to see if that was his actual price.  

If a player hits unrestricted free agency and doesn't get a single offer, are you still paying him the max?  

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5 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I have never viewed him as a player with unlimited potential.  He has always been a freak of nature athletically with almost no basketball skills.  

And I'm not saying I would have let him walk if he got a max offer, I probably do end up matching it.  My problem is they didn't test the market to see if that was his actual price.  

If a player hits unrestricted free agency and doesn't get a single offer, are you still paying him the max?  

Sure but you could still get a DeAndre Jordan/Ben Wallace from a guy like that.  The difference is that those guys always had the "want" to perfect their craft, Andre has always been lacking in the desire department.  I'd argue that he has a lot more basketball skills than those guys, he just has no idea how to harness it into something productive nor does it seem like he cares much. The inconsistent effort and lack of focus is a much bigger issue to me than his natural basketball skills.

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48 minutes ago, NYLion said:

How many times has a premier rebounder with unlimited potential still in his early 20s been traded?

I'm not a Drummond fan and have always questioned his desire to improve but Stan would have had a lot of egg on his face had he traded Drummond a couple of years ago and Drummond went on to succeed elsewhere. 

I don't remember too many people picking Monroe over Drummond in Monroe's final year here, most people were ready to move on from Monroe at that point and Drummond was still at the sky high potential stage.

I'm not arguing that the contract is a mistake,  Just saying that the alternatives weren't too attractive either.  In retrospect, Stan probably should have dealt him when he had value but GMs see the same flaws that we see with lack of effort being the biggest one so not sure how fruitful that trade market was even a couple of years ago.

 

 

but those are the types of decisions those guys are paid to make.  they see him every day.  they know who he is, and they still gave a max contract and a trade kicker.

and now all reports are svg hates this team (except for kcp, the guy they let walk for nothing).

after svg gets fired next year, i hope gores is smart enough to hire a gm and then let the gm hire the coach.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

after svg gets fired next year, i hope gores is smart enough to hire a gm and then let the gm hire the coach.

This is key and a near-certainty as well.  SVG's departure is also imminent...barring miracle seasons from a handful of players.

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On 9/25/2017 at 9:41 AM, NYLion said:

Between the Drummond signing, getting nothing for Monroe and KCP and the Smith stretch buyout, that's 4 pretty enormous screw ups. Not to mention the poor drafting. 

I've been a backer of Stan the GM and he has made a lot of good trades but the bad seems to outweigh the good thus far. 

How a budding star in Drummond can from all that promise to having no trade value in the matter of a few years is beyond me.  Part of that is on Andre but a lot falls on poor coaching and the max contract although it could be argued that he didn't have much of a choice but to pay Andre.

Poor drafting?

SVG had 3 draft picks you can actually look at. Stanley Johnson, Ellenson and Kennard.

You can criticize the Johnson pick (although this year will be very telling), but Ellenson & Kennard are WAY too soon to cool. In fact, the Ellenson pick hardly counts, as he was the 18th pick in what is considered an incredibly weak draft. 

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2 hours ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Poor drafting?

SVG had 3 draft picks you can actually look at. Stanley Johnson, Ellenson and Kennard.

You can criticize the Johnson pick (although this year will be very telling), but Ellenson & Kennard are WAY too soon to cool. In fact, the Ellenson pick hardly counts, as he was the 18th pick in what is considered an incredibly weak draft. 

Yeah, he has had 3 drafts and not one starter..  If we are judging right now, his drafting looks poor.  There's really no argument to be had IMO. Stanley isn't tracking well to state the obvious, Ellenson has cement feet so until he gets that fixed it will be a grind for him to have any sort of impact and we'll see about Kennard and the 2nd round picks have been busts so I don't see the fortunes changing anytime soon.  Would love to be wrong of course

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Yeah, he has had 3 drafts and not one starter..  
 
Who from last year's draft selected after 18 is worthy of being a starter on most teams? 
 
> If we are judging right now, his drafting looks poor.  
 
If you are judging right now, you are making a poor decision. 
 
> Stanley isn't tracking well to state the obvious, 
 
Again, this will be a big year to see where he is. 
 
> Ellenson has cement feet so until he gets that fixed it will be a grind for him to have any sort of impact 
 
Yeah, 19 year old rookie selected 18th in a weak draft has weaknesses. No surprise & certainly no reason to blame SVG.
 
> and we'll see about Kennard 
 
Yeah, so let's not even count this draft. 
 
> and the 2nd round picks have been busts 
 
2nd round picks can't be "busts". The vast majority don't play. That is the average. 

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Just saying that's as of NOW, the drafting under SVG doesn't look good.  Of course it's a fluid situation from year to year since these guys are all young but as of now, it can't be considered a plus for SVG which is all I'm saying.

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I still think SJ will develop into at least an average player. But that will still make him a bad pick because players taken after him will probably end up much better.

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33 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:
Yeah, he has had 3 drafts and not one starter..  
 
Who from last year's draft selected after 18 is worthy of being a starter on most teams? 
 
> If we are judging right now, his drafting looks poor.  
 
If you are judging right now, you are making a poor decision. 
 
> Stanley isn't tracking well to state the obvious, 
 
Again, this will be a big year to see where he is. 
 
> Ellenson has cement feet so until he gets that fixed it will be a grind for him to have any sort of impact 
 
Yeah, 19 year old rookie selected 18th in a weak draft has weaknesses. No surprise & certainly no reason to blame SVG.
 
> and we'll see about Kennard 
 
Yeah, so let's not even count this draft. 
 
> and the 2nd round picks have been busts 
 
2nd round picks can't be "busts". The vast majority don't play. That is the average. 

Great post.

It is hard to draft a teenager after the first few pick who will be a for-sure impact player.  SVG screwed up by not drafting Booker or Turner and instead drafting SJ, but even so there's a real chance SJ will be a starter at some point this year.

 

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We let KCP walk for nothing? 

One year of Bradley (if they don't flip him for value at the deadline), a better player than KVC, is far from nothing.

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24 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I still think SJ will develop into at least an average player. But that will still make him a bad pick because players taken after him will probably end up much better.

I agree that his bottom expectation is that he is an average player. But I believe he will develop into an above average player due to good defense/finding some consistency with an average jump shot. 

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19 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

We let KCP walk for nothing? 

One year of Bradley (if they don't flip him for value at the deadline), a better player than KVC, is far from nothing.

They trade Morris for Bradley.  They let KCP walk for nothing.

They could have had Bradley and trade return for KCP. 

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10 minutes ago, NYLion said:

They trade Morris for Bradley.  They let KCP walk for nothing.

They could have had Bradley and trade return for KCP. 

and that 2nd round pick we could have had will turn into the next isaiah thomas!

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