Jump to content

THECATMAC

Ausmus has lost this team.......losing 17-7 today..

Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think the behind the scenes stuff is probably more important.  I don't think game management/ strategy is that important in baseball, but I know that is where I disagree with many here.    

Hopefully this doesn't bother you too much but I agree with you.   I think a team with good cohesion and leadership will overcome most strategic errors.  A team that doesn't get along or has poor leadership will struggle to execute even the smartest plan.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think the behind the scenes stuff is probably more important.  I don't think game management/ strategy is that important in baseball, but I know that is where I disagree with many here.    

So you think having team dinners or going to each other's birthday parties is more important than pitching changes or deciding to use a pinch hitter? I guess I just need a definition of your opinion of "behind the scenes stuff".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

that's just revisionist history. managers don't matter near that much, unless it just happens to be a fluke year one way or another.

i could think of 10 things that cost us more than our manager last year.

They might not matter that much but it was a 1 game gap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

So you think having team dinners or going to each other's birthday parties is more important than pitching changes or deciding to use a pinch hitter? I guess I just need a definition of your opinion of "behind the scenes stuff".

Well, it is behind the scenes so we don't really know, but I think a good manager keeps the the team on an even keel, protects his players from the media, develops and teaches players, etc.  I don't know whether Ausmus does any of that, but I think in general the sum of what we don't see probably exceeds the sum of what we do see. Most of the game strategy is just cookie cutter with most managers making the same types of decisions.   

Nine games is a lot.  I didn't see nine games more talent on last year's team.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Brad cost the Tigers 9 games last season. I won't tell you which ones though, it's my secret.

Throwing out statements like that just begs the question, name them. If a fan says there are 10 reasons other than Brad why this team lost, the obvious question is what are the 10 reasons?

i knew some idiot would want a list....

jd injury
znn injury
jup slow start
james mccann
maybin injury
anibal sanchez
mark lowe
mike pelfrey
norris injury
jd defense
steven moya lol
anthony gose wtf
mike aviles

i could probably come up with more. where's bobby parnell nowadays?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

i knew some idiot would want a list....

jd injury
znn injury
jup slow start
james mccann
maybin injury
anibal sanchez
mark lowe
mike pelfrey
norris injury
jd defense
steven moya lol
anthony gose wtf
mike aviles

i could probably come up with more. where's bobby parnell nowadays?

Injuries count as one reason. And it's a very poor excuse, IMO. Every team in baseball has to deal with injuries. And use of certain players isn't Brad's fault, it's the GM who signed/acquired the players.

So of the 10 reasons, we have injuries and inept players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Well, it is behind the scenes so we don't really know, but I think a good manager keeps the the team on an even keel, protects his players from the media, develops and teaches players, etc.  I don't know whether Ausmus does any of that, but I think in general the sum of what we don't see probably exceeds the sum of what we do see. Most of the game strategy is just cookie cutter with most managers making the same types of decisions.   

Nine games is a lot.  I didn't see nine games more talent on last year's team.  

9 games was just a sarcastic number I threw out there. 

I firmly believe, as is my right, that the Tigers would have been a much better team the last 3 years with an experienced,  career winning manager. A type of manager who has worked his way up a system and made his mistakes in the minors and had/has experience as a ML manager. Would the Tigers have won a WS under such a manager? Probably not, again, IMO. But I really feel we would have been a better team. Yes, injuries and poor play contributed to poor seasons, but the one constant is the manager. We had fire sales under Brad's watch. And we are a bottom feeder, again, under his watch. There's only so many excuses that can be made for him.

That isn't letting AA off the hook. He's responsible for signing these inept players AND for keeping Brad around far beyond his expiration date. One could even be of the opinion that it's mostly Al's fault. I wouldn't argue with either opinion.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

i knew some idiot would want a list....

jd injury
znn injury
jup slow start
james mccann
maybin injury
anibal sanchez
mark lowe
mike pelfrey
norris injury
jd defense
steven moya lol
anthony gose wtf
mike aviles

i could probably come up with more. where's bobby parnell nowadays?

Idiot? You're the one who said "i could think of 10 things that cost us more than our manager last year." So if someone asks what your opinion is about what are the 10 reasons, you call them an idiot? Whatever. I could list 10 games he cost us. But I won't. You'll have to ask. And then I'll just call you an idiot. 😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Injuries count as one reason. And it's a very poor excuse, IMO. Every team in baseball has to deal with injuries. And use of certain players isn't Brad's fault, it's the GM who signed/acquired the players.

So of the 10 reasons, we have injuries and inept players. 

lol i didn't i know you had a set of rules i had to follow.

i mean beyond talent, injuries, coaching, what possible other reasons are there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Idiot? You're the one who said "i could think of 10 things that cost us more than our manager last year." So if someone asks what your opinion is about what are the 10 reasons, you call them an idiot? Whatever. I could list 10 games he cost us. But I won't. You'll have to ask. And then I'll just call you an idiot. 😀

boo hoo hoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

lol i didn't i know you had a set of rules i had to follow.

i mean beyond talent, injuries, coaching, what possible other reasons are there?

One huge reason and it seems like you're in denial or you just don't see it. I said I wasn't going to bad mouth Brad this season and I mostly didn't. Through all of his terrible mistakes, I kept quiet. We'll let the results speak for themselves. Thank goodness for the WSox and A's. Otherwise we would have the worst record in the AL. And people were getting on Henning for calling us a .500 team at best. Wow, he was way off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

One huge reason and it seems like you're in denial or you just don't see it. I said I wasn't going to bad mouth Brad this season and I mostly didn't. Through all of his terrible mistakes, I kept quiet. We'll let the results speak for themselves. Thank goodness for the WSox and A's. Otherwise we would have the worst record in the AL. And people were getting on Henning for calling us a .500 team at best. Wow, he was way off.

You seemed to contradict yourself at the end there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

One huge reason and it seems like you're in denial or you just don't see it. I said I wasn't going to bad mouth Brad this season and I mostly didn't. Through all of his terrible mistakes, I kept quiet. We'll let the results speak for themselves. Thank goodness for the WSox and A's. Otherwise we would have the worst record in the AL. And people were getting on Henning for calling us a .500 team at best. Wow, he was way off.

denial? brad cost us a lot of games in 2014-15. he was especially horrible his first year, especially in the playoffs, and i think i posted or at least told some friends that he should be fired for that.

i don't think he's done anything especially stupid the past 2+ years tho, relative to other managers.

regardless, you asked me to post 10+ other factors, I did, and you're still somehow pissed off. if you want to list how 10 of our 75 losses, a full 13.333333333333333333%, where the manager's fault last season, go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

denial? brad cost us a lot of games in 2014-15. he was especially horrible his first year, especially in the playoffs, and i think i posted or at least told some friends that he should be fired for that.

i don't think he's done anything especially stupid the past 2+ years tho, relative to other managers.

 

I agree with this.  I think he has been OK since Dombrowski left.  I do not know whether that is coincidental or not.  Perhaps Dombrowski didn't let him manage the veterans the way he wanted?  That was a problem with Trammell too.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

in that sense leyland cost us a world series

maybe he did...but he got there...twice....and two more playoff trips.

scoreboard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Brad was hired with no experience I described him as "Manager X", the proof would be in the results.  The results are in, and he's been a 500 manager for a win-now team with a huge payroll.

I believe that he's a poor manager, and there are other indicators like the constant 4-year horror show of the bullpen as evidence, but I understand that some others feel that's somehow irrelevant and that he's been a cookie-cutter manager, no worse in terms of on-field decisions than most other managers.  That of course doesn't make him a championship manager either, unless you more or less dismiss the value of a Manager, which again, I realize some do (I don't).

One way or another, Brad has failed to help this team live up to expectations.  Of course the GM should also be held accountable for this, and it's on Avila that the Manager/Player mix has been off; and it's a black mark on DD that he hired Ausmus in the first place, especially given the makeup, expectations and needs of this team.  Who knows?  Maybe DD still likes him and will hire him away in Beantown, and maybe Brad will be a success there.  Maybe Brad has figured things out is close to doing so, and/or just needs a fresh start somewhere.

Maybe Brad would have been great with the Whitecaps or Seawolves or even the Mudhens, but as a Major League manager, eh, not so much.

Or maybe like Joe Torre he'll figure it out and become Brad Awesome some day, and when that happens, I'll be rooting against his team, 'cause it ain't likely to be the Tigers, my friends.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sabretooth said:

When Brad was hired with no experience I described him as "Manager X", the proof would be in the results.  The results are in, and he's been a 500 manager for a win-now team with a huge payroll.

I believe that he's a poor manager, and there are other indicators like the constant 4-year horror show of the bullpen as evidence, but I understand that some others feel that's somehow irrelevant and that he's been a cookie-cutter manager, no worse in terms of on-field decisions than most other managers.  That of course doesn't make him a championship manager either, unless you more or less dismiss the value of a Manager, which again, I realize some do (I don't).

One way or another, Brad has failed to help this team live up to expectations.  Of course the GM should also be held accountable for this, and it's on Avila that the Manager/Player mix has been off; and it's a black mark on DD that he hired Ausmus in the first place, especially given the makeup, expectations and needs of this team.  Who knows?  Maybe DD still likes him and will hire him away in Beantown, and maybe Brad will be a success there.  Maybe Brad has figured things out is close to doing so, and/or just needs a fresh start somewhere.

Maybe Brad would have been great with the Whitecaps or Seawolves or even the Mudhens, but as a Major League manager, eh, not so much.

Or maybe like Joe Torre he'll figure it out and become Brad Awesome some day, and when that happens, I'll be rooting against his team, 'cause it ain't likely to be the Tigers, my friends.

i'll agree he wasn't a great fit for the team. they probably should have gone with an old school manager like dusty baker or something with all the vets the team had. i was hoping brad would be more new school, but i don't think anybody realized at the time how far behind the front office was with that sort of thing. he didn't have any data to work with really other than what he could look up on fangraphs probably.

i think the current team suits him better, but i don't care one way or another with the 2 season tank started. at this point it's about developing prospects for 2020 and developing middling veterans into trade bait. i certainly wouldn't mind a bench coach working for a team with a better analytics setup coming in to kind of speed that process along a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Angels are one game out of the playoffs as of this morning. Discounting our recent trades and the Angels getting Upton was the talent on the Angels that much better than the Tigers through July ? They also lost Trout for many games like we did JD. They also lost many starters and their bullpen is quite "nameless". Yet they are on the doorstep and we are terrible and trading Legacy Stars...is unfair  to say that's the difference between a good manager and a so-so manager ?

I do not know. What does everyone think ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I agree with this.  I think he has been OK since Dombrowski left.  I do not know whether that is coincidental or not.  Perhaps Dombrowski didn't let him manage the veterans the way he wanted?  That was a problem with Trammell too.     

Please explain what you mean by Dombrowski did not let him mange veterans the way they wanted? I would like to know. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I believe that he's a poor manager, and there are other indicators like the constant 4-year horror show of the bullpen as evidence, but I understand that some others feel that's somehow irrelevant and that he's been a cookie-cutter manager, no worse in terms of on-field decisions than most other managers.

The bullpen components have largely been a treasure trove of trash over the years.  I mean, I know bullpens are volatile, but how many of the arms tried in the past several renditions of the Tiger bullpen have gone on to have success elsewhere?  Rodney and Benoit come to mind, but that's going back quite a ways and not a part of the Ausmus era.  

This is not to say that Ausmus hasn't made mistakes.  But I think its hard to out the bullpen's failings completely on his shoulders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

but at least brad hasn't cost us a world series.

Good thing we didn't win...gotta stay hungry 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

i'll agree he wasn't a great fit for the team. they probably should have gone with an old school manager like dusty baker or something with all the vets the team had. i was hoping brad would be more new school, but i don't think anybody realized at the time how far behind the front office was with that sort of thing. he didn't have any data to work with really other than what he could look up on fangraphs probably.

i think the current team suits him better, but i don't care one way or another with the 2 season tank started. at this point it's about developing prospects for 2020 and developing middling veterans into trade bait. i certainly wouldn't mind a bench coach working for a team with a better analytics setup coming in to kind of speed that process along a bit.

I pretty much agree with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×