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Sept 10, Cardinals @ Lions, 1pm est, Fox

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Probably more to do with earning playoff berths 2/3 years I'd guess. Martha hired multiple people between her and Caldwell I highly doubt those people told her to fire him and she was like "nahhh he's a nice guy lets keep him". Doesn't seem like the Martha we've been allowed to see thus far.

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2 hours ago, number20 said:

Granted, but you can’t claim Caldwell played no role, and evidently I’m only one here saying he did. A substantial one. His groupies love to credit him for all his wins, but are quick to spin loads of excuses for his losses – blaming them on everything and anything else, as long as it isn’t him (Stafford’s finger. They weren’t playing the Browns. It was the referees. The sun was in his eyes). I mean, it’s not like he had anything to do with the entire team’s performance on the field during that 0-4 collapse. Or was responsible for strategy/game planning, practice/preparation, in-game decisions, and pretty much everything else. Why would I believe he has any accountability for how the Lions finished? (Seriously, what is he, the head coach?)

How often, after any of those 7 losses, were you thinking they played a great game but were simply overmatched against a superior team, thinking they couldn’t have played any better? I can’t even say that about the majority of their wins. I was hoping to see Caldwell gone at the end of the season. He can’t hold onto a lead, routinely lets teams back into games, plays not to win (okay we’re up 7. Let’s run the clock for the last 3 quarters. Hurry up, before we lose.), his game management is questionable at best, and he apparently has a fetish for kick returners who repeatedly demonstrate they shouldn’t be returning kicks. He’s Wayne Fontes minus a pulse

Caldwell groupies?  Are you sure you're on the right forum?

The collapse last season coincided with Stafford's injury and a tougher schedule.  A lot of us called it that the team was getting by due to Stafford magic and a soft schedule and that it could very well come crashing down when they played better teams.  When you blow the division in the fashion that the Lions did, blame deserves to get spread all around but I have a hard time believing that Caldwell was the main culprit and to reiterate that I'm not a "groupie", I am not a Caldwell fan by any means as I said before.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to blame or credit a coach for any particular game. Teams will lose games even when they had the right amount of preparation and the right game plan. Teams will win games even if the prep was poor or the game plan sucked. It's impossible to know what the level of prep actually was. 

When it comes down to it, the players have a far great effect on the outcome than the coach. They either execute the plays well or they don't. Better players execute well more often. But even good players can have a bad game.

Just this morning on the radio they were talking about last year's game against the Giants. I had forgotten the details, but the lions had two red zone turnovers in that game  Zenner fumbled the ball into the end zone and stafford threw a pick. That's at least 10 points forfeited, and that's entirely on the players.

I do think it's a valid criticism to point out the kick returners that are obsessed with taking the ball out of the end zone.  That seems like the type of thing that could be easily addressed and enforced. I don't think they should just take a knee every time, so my hope is that the guys are just making poor decisions regarding when it might be worth it to attempt a return.

I think there are things that happen during a kick that can affect the decision. Did the kicking team attempt to kick it to one side of the field but make a mistake. Did the return team have any success blocking while the ball is in the air? I think there are things to look for that go into the decision. If the return man sees something, and there is a good chance for a big return, I want him to take that chance. I think the upside of starting with great field position outweighs the downside of starting at the 15 or 20 relative to the 25.

 

This is a great post. Sure there are plenty of individual games that defy coaching efforts. But there’s a lot of evidence out there of teams turning around with the right head coach (and plenty of train wrecks who drag their team into a hopeless ditch). I’ve just never been impressed with Caldwell since he’s been here. The Lions appear to be doing what they always do by clinging to mediocrity until it becomes obvious a switch is needed, out of fear that a change will “upset things”. Mayhew was allowed to linger way too long – even his apologists grudgingly came to their senses. Would anyone here still prefer Mayhew over Quinn? One wonders what the Lions are denying themselves by holding onto a .549 retread coach. Another losing season would be very Fontes-like, which I’m expecting. Up and down, year after year.

I know everyone here is probably tired of talking about Caldwell. I’m just a longtime fan who wants a Lion Super Bowl before he croaks. Quinn might be that guy. Stafford certainly is. Caldwell isn’t. I’m hoping Quinn eventually brings in his own guy.

C’mon, who’s with me??? Let’s goooooo!!!!!!!!!

 

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Caldwell groupies?  Are you sure you're on the right forum?

The collapse last season coincided with Stafford's injury and a tougher schedule.  A lot of us called it that the team was getting by due to Stafford magic and a soft schedule and that it could very well come crashing down when they played better teams.  When you blow the division in the fashion that the Lions did, blame deserves to get spread all around but I have a hard time believing that Caldwell was the main culprit and to reiterate that I'm not a "groupie", I am not a Caldwell fan by any means as I said before.

 

 

Okay perhaps groupie was a tad hyperbolic. I'll concede that. It is through caffeine that I achieve motion, NY. Some days more than others

 

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

Probably more to do with earning playoff berths 2/3 years I'd guess. Martha hired multiple people between her and Caldwell I highly doubt those people told her to fire him and she was like "nahhh he's a nice guy lets keep him". Doesn't seem like the Martha we've been allowed to see thus far.

martin mayhew was also coming off a playoff appearance when he was axed along with most of the front office.  yet caldwell survived.

i think part of that is because martha likes him.  thats what all the reporting says.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

martin mayhew was also coming off a playoff appearance when he was axed along with most of the front office.  yet caldwell survived.

i think part of that is because martha likes him.  thats what all the reporting says.

Mayhew was fired after the they went 7-9 and missed the playoffs. I'm pretty sure Quinn was given the option to retain Caldwell or not. 

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I would be surprised if Mrs. Ford told Quinn not to fire Caldwell, or even suggested it. I would be less surprised if she indicated her appreciation of Caldwell to Quinn.

In either case, Quinn had no risk in keeping Caldwell, unless he knew he had a top five coach waiting in the Wings. His calculation would have been: If Caldwell succeeds, great; if not, he wasn’t my guy.

Now with Caldwell’s contract coming up, Quinn has to make his first really hard decision as GM. I think a home playoff game gets it done, or an impressive offensive showing as a Wild Card.

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5 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Mayhew was fired after the they went 7-9 and missed the playoffs. I'm pretty sure Quinn was given the option to retain Caldwell or not. 

Mayhew was fired in the middle of the season after that disastrous game in London and Caldwell was not.

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On 9/13/2017 at 10:40 AM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I am not willing to buy the narrative that somehow Caldwell is allowing other teams to put up 10 points early based on Sunday and last season.

If the trend continues, fine, I am willing to consider the possibility more seriously, but fans as a group tend to read more into trends than is often there.

It's not like it's part of the game plan, & I would argue that Caldwell's demeanor has a lot to do with this team not panicking when it falls behind.  That, & Matthew Stafford is a beast.

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It's not like it's part of the game plan, & I would argue that Caldwell's demeanor has a lot to do with this team not panicking when it falls behind.  That, & Matthew Stafford is a beast.

Often one’s greatest strength is his greatest weakness. If this is the case with Caldwell, his calmness - which has helped his team perform well under pressure - could also be seen, in a negative light, as passiveness.

I think the team’s play calling early in games under Caldwell has been passive. They use nearly all of the play clock, they rely heavily on a short passing game, they try to “establish the run” even if they are only getting 2-3 YPC, then when they find themselves behind in the 4th Qtr, they get aggressive.

Now it could be that Quinn has bought into strategy, based on the middling level of talent they have around Stafford. If that were the case, however, I think Quinn would have extended Caldwell already. I suspect that Quinn is not convinced that Caldwell is getting enough out of the offensive talent he has, and that slow starts offensively are a big part of Quinn’s decision to leave his head coach as a lame duck.

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33 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

A very bad Colts defense kept the once mighty Cardinals offense to 16 points today.

Same as the Lions.

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

A very bad Colts defense kept the once mighty Cardinals offense to 16 points today.

Carson Palmer is really bad now and they're without Johnson and their #1 WR

Now admittedly Johnson missed a chunk of the game with the Lions and the WR was playing hurt against us, but still, I'm clinging to the Lions defense is the greatest in the NFL until proven otherwise

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18 hours ago, pyrotigers said:

Carson Palmer is really bad now and they're without Johnson and their #1 WR

Now admittedly Johnson missed a chunk of the game with the Lions and the WR was playing hurt against us, but still, I'm clinging to the Lions defense is the greatest in the NFL until proven otherwise

How good we looked against Johnson has to mean at least a little. But ya, the Cards aren't offensively special lol. Larry was hurt against us?

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On 9/14/2017 at 3:27 PM, Buddha said:

martin mayhew was also coming off a playoff appearance when he was axed along with most of the front office.  yet caldwell survived.

i think part of that is because martha likes him.  thats what all the reporting says.

Mayhew was here for many years before Caldwell dude...

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Any given Sunday.  Parity.  etc etc.  We will look good sometimes and bad others.  The biggest thing that does suck is our record against teams with winning records at the end of the year.  Does not matter where they 'rank' in the beginning of the year.  To be the best you got to beat the best and the Lions have not done that the past....50 years or so.  lol

I still watch, I still root and I still hope.

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...I'm clinging to the Lions defense is the greatest in the NFL until proven otherwise

Yes, let’s hope!

Tonight against the Giants probably won’t test this theory about the defense, but Atlanta sure will.

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2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

How good we looked against Johnson has to mean at least a little. But ya, the Cards aren't offensively special lol. Larry was hurt against us?

Not Larry, the other guy. Brown, not that Brown, the good one.

I guess Larry might still be their #1 WR, in which case it was the #2 WR

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It is hard to beat a winning team on the road when the Lions typically have less talent than what one normally associates with a winning team.  Home field means a lot.  It pretty much means the Lions have to be killing it, or, the other team shoots itself in the foot repeatedly.

Another consideration is it is hard for anyone to win in Green Bay, period.  Minnesota and Chicago are not easy places to win when they are good either, and a win doesn't count against them if they don't happen have a winning record that season.  That leaves 5 road games, and I would expect 2 or 3 of those to come against a team that has 8 wins or fewer by season's end.

I don't know, just a long way around to saying I am not surprised by the inability to win against teams with a winning record thing.  By and large the Lions have not been talented enough to own a game against a legitimately good team in their house.  And I think the number of reasonable chances to break through are fewer than one thinks at first thought.  Basically the opposing team has to be 9-6 (or better) in the games they aren't playing the Lions in that season.

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4 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Mayhew was here for many years before Caldwell dude...

really dude?  i did not know that.  come on.

the point was that martha fired the lot of them after the kc game except for caldwell, who was directly involved in that awful start to the season.  she cleaned house of management except for one guy.  and then the new guy gets hired and he keeps him.  the one guy who he keeps is caldwell.  scouts gone.  long time employees gone.  but caldwell remains.

it is not out of the realm of possibility to suggest that martha and her well known admiration for caldwell may have played a part in that.  sheesh.  dude.

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11 hours ago, holygoat said:

I still think that Quinn kept Caldwell because he didn't have what he felt was a better option at the time.

This is probably always why someone keeps a coach

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