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Casimir

09/03/2017 1:10pm Cleveland Indians @ Detroit Tigers

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

We all know the Tigers will select a big pitcher who throws in the high 90s, but has poor command.  His upside is top of the rotation starter, but some think he is better suited to relief.  

What they really need is another draft like the 2008 one. It was the apotheosis of DD's fetish for tall, hard-throwing PHPs with no command, except there was no pretense that these guys were going to be starters. Among all the lousy drafts under DD this was stands out for his sheer incompetence and lunacy.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

When they finally contend for the playoffs again in 2032, we can all boast that we were fans from before the Ausmus era.

Ausmus will probably still be our manager.

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2 hours ago, azzurri said:

No sugar-coating this sh!t show...this is a 110 loss team right now.  With some work, they may be a 95 loss team in 2018.  There is no excuse for this complete rebuild...the Tigers roster was the equal of the Indians going into this season, I don't care what anybody says.  Francona vs Ausmus, that's the difference.  The only problem was the bullpen, which could have been fixed in the offseason.  Avila needs to go.  This is beyond brutal and there is literally no hope for the next 2-3 years.

They were not the equal of the Indians, but they were a team that could + should have won 80-85.  Shotty management by Avila and Ausmus hurt, but they had many breaks go the wrong way too. 

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31 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

We all know the Tigers will select a big pitcher who throws in the high 90s, but has poor command.  His upside is top of the rotation starter, but some think he is better suited to relief.  

"Not overpowering".

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2 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

This forum needs more optimists.

I prefer realism with a touch of optimism.  

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3 hours ago, azzurri said:

No sugar-coating this sh!t show...this is a 110 loss team right now.  With some work, they may be a 95 loss team in 2018.  There is no excuse for this complete rebuild...the Tigers roster was the equal of the Indians going into this season, I don't care what anybody says.  Francona vs Ausmus, that's the difference.  The only problem was the bullpen, which could have been fixed in the offseason.  Avila needs to go.  This is beyond brutal and there is literally no hope for the next 2-3 years.

thankfully Brad is gone in a month, but how would Francona fix the fact that TIger starters beside Verlander and Fulmer have a combined 6.05 era? that's 1 run more than Mike Pelfrey's era.

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Yeah it's totally Brad's fault that basically every starter he throws out there completely sucks, or that Miggy got injured/forgot how to hit, VMart became a walking corpse, Kinsler declined big time and has a bullpen full of junk besides one pitcher.  Get real, if you seriously think this team would have contended for the playoffs with another manager then you are crazy. 

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

The Detroit starting pitching was on par with Cleveland?

Yes, talking about going into this season:  Verlander=Kluber, Fulmer=Carrasco.  No reason not to have expected Norris, Zimmerman, Sanchez not to equal the Indians 3-5 starters.

Offensively, the Tigers were more potent than Cleveland.  Look at the lineups 1-9 hitters and tell me Cleveland was better.  Yeah, we had horrendous seasons from Kinsler, Cabrera, V Martinez. There was no reason to do a complete blowup.

Snarky comments aside (and nobody said anything about the Dodgers), this was an 86 win team last year.  No reason not to have expected them to be capable of 90 this year.  And, with a managerial change and dedicated effors to re-sign Upton and JD this team could have still contended next season.

 

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4 hours ago, azzurri said:

No sugar-coating this sh!t show...this is a 110 loss team right now.  With some work, they may be a 95 loss team in 2018.  There is no excuse for this complete rebuild...the Tigers roster was the equal of the Indians going into this season, I don't care what anybody says.  Francona vs Ausmus, that's the difference.  The only problem was the bullpen, which could have been fixed in the offseason.  Avila needs to go.  This is beyond brutal and there is literally no hope for the next 2-3 years.

talk about delusional...The problems with this team went way beyond the BP.  Its not easy to win when the majority of your starting staff would get blown up in independent ball, or that two of your offensive anchors are walking corpses.  I have no clue how anyone thought this team was actually going to contend this year.

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We're doing the right thing. Ausmus and Avila need to go, but I'm starting to think if the team is not sold to the right buyers nothing matters.

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4 hours ago, sabretooth said:

Ausmus will probably still be our manager.

It'll be like Billy Martin though.  It'll be Ausmus' 4th tour of duty in Detroit.  The season after he is fired by the San Jose Athletics.

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1 hour ago, azzurri said:

Yes, talking about going into this season:  Verlander=Kluber, Fulmer=Carrasco.  No reason not to have expected Norris, Zimmerman, Sanchez not to equal the Indians 3-5 starters.

Offensively, the Tigers were more potent than Cleveland.  Look at the lineups 1-9 hitters and tell me Cleveland was better.  Yeah, we had horrendous seasons from Kinsler, Cabrera, V Martinez. There was no reason to do a complete blowup.

Snarky comments aside (and nobody said anything about the Dodgers), this was an 86 win team last year.  No reason not to have expected them to be capable of 90 this year.  And, with a managerial change and dedicated effors to re-sign Upton and JD this team could have still contended next season.

 

You honestly thought Sanchez had value as a SP?  And you didn't think there was risk with Norris' age/development and/or Zimmermann bouncing back?

You honestly thought there was no risk with MartinezV?

Agree to disagree.

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40 minutes ago, thefunk said:

We're doing the right thing. Ausmus and Avila need to go, but I'm starting to think if the team is not sold to the right buyers nothing matters.

Can we please stop with this? 

Chris Illitch has been the owner for all of about 10 seconds. We don't know anything about him yet. **** it took Mike a decade to figure it out. Hopefully, Chris is a bit quicker. 

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2 hours ago, MDMAzing said:

talk about delusional...The problems with this team went way beyond the BP.  Its not easy to win when the majority of your starting staff would get blown up in independent ball, or that two of your offensive anchors are walking corpses.  I have no clue how anyone thought this team was actually going to contend this year.

Because they did last year and it was pretty much the same team.  

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3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah it's totally Brad's fault that basically every starter he throws out there completely sucks, or that Miggy got injured/forgot how to hit, VMart became a walking corpse, Kinsler declined big time and has a bullpen full of junk besides one pitcher.  Get real, if you seriously think this team would have contended for the playoffs with another manager then you are crazy. 

This team would not have made the playoffs this year with another manager.  But I am quite positive they would have made the playoffs last year with a good manager at the helm.  Given that we are likely to face a playoff drought for a few years, the fact that they stood pat at the deadline last year is an absolute mistake IMO.

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12 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

This is cruel. It's like sending children to fight in the crusades or something, right out of my junior high school history book.  A lot of these guys just can't play at this level. 

I watched a few bits of it as it was on TV here.

It reminded me a bit of 2003 - although I'm not sure there was quite as much potential on display last night.

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