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RandyMarsh

2018 Draft Pick Watch

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If Ausmus doesn't insert Romine into the starting rotation and give Kinsler 7-10 starts behind the plate from here on out, I'm firing his @ss. We need that pick.

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2 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

Comforto, Granderson, Bruce, Cespedes and Flores put up pretty pretty respectable numbers IMO.  Walker and Reyes were disappointments, and of course Wright is MIA.  Injuries bug looks like it caught them bad.  DeGrom was really their only healthy starter this year, as Gesselman (17 starts and seemingly healthy) is the only one with a shot to crack 20 starts this season for them.

Their offense is a about average in run scoring.  Their pitchers were injured which is what I meant by "quickest way to failure".  Pitchers are fragile which makes it difficult to have sustained success when you build around it.  

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On 9/4/2017 at 10:36 AM, Who is the Drizzle? said:

i don't necessarily agree with the we can't draft 1st round picks bit.

JV
Maybin
Miller
Perry
Turner
Crawford
Hill
Burrows
Manning
Faedo

That's basically 2 guys (Perry, Crawford) we didn't get good value from. Turner was a bust but he was a big part in a big trade (Infante, Anibal). Jury is still out on Hill of course, but Burrows, Manning, Faedo look like winners to this point.

It's not transcendent, i.e. we took Miller over Kershaw, but it's nothing to fret over.

jacob turner as a 19 year old in low a ball had a 3.68 era and a 1.14 whip.

matt manning as a 19 year old in low a ball has a 5.60 era and a 1.48 whip.

faedo has no pro experience at all.

burrows as a 19 year old in low a ball had a 3.15 era and a 1.2 whip.

so were SURE that burrows and manning and faedo look like winners?  you would have said the same thing about turner at this point in his career.

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Just now, Buddha said:

jacob turner as a 19 year old in low a ball had a 3.68 era and a 1.14 whip.

matt manning as a 19 year old in low a ball has a 5.60 era and a 1.48 whip.

faedo has no pro experience at all.

burrows as a 19 year old in low a ball had a 3.15 era and a 1.2 whip.

so were SURE that burrows and manning and faedo look like winners?  you would have said the same thing about turner at this point in his career.

yes, buddah, i can see into the future and you should read all my posts with this in mind.

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13 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

yes, buddah, i can see into the future and you should read all my posts with this in mind.

i read all your posts with the appropriate mountain range of salt in mind.

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Just now, Buddha said:

i read all your posts with the appropriate mountain range of salt in mind.

you're lucky i'm not mdmazing because i could spam this forum with how much i'm right and also how much i'm wrong.

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Just now, mickeyb105 said:

You?

xVQ2SS.gif

thats me getting ready for drizz's football posts.  doesnt even come close to what i have to endure in the baseball forums.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Their offense is a about average in run scoring.  Their pitchers were injured which is what I meant by "quickest way to failure".  Pitchers are fragile which makes it difficult to have sustained success when you build around it.  

This was a team that was once so deep in SP that they dealt us Fulmer, so it seems the injuries that have decimated what should have been an elite rotation were amazingly unlucky for them.  That team didn't have Dodgers-level depth, but it was a team that seemed better built than Detroit's.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

thats me getting ready for drizz's football posts.  doesnt even come close to what i have to endure in the baseball forums.

How do you have enough left over for Stanley Johnson?

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

thats me getting ready for drizz's football posts.  doesnt even come close to what i have to endure in the baseball forums.

we are at direct odds, you the eternal pessimist and me the eternal optimist, so it stands to reason.

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7 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

This was a team that was once so deep in SP that they dealt us Fulmer, so it seems the injuries that have decimated what should have been an elite rotation were amazingly unlucky for them.  That team didn't have Dodgers-level depth, but it was a team that seemed better built than Detroit's.

is there a team WORSE built than detroit?

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

is there a team WORSE built than detroit?

Wait a month and it'll be the Royals again. Otherwise, I wouldn't say there's a team that definitively worse right now. Most teams either suck but have a decent system, or suck but have a decent record.

The Giants are in a similar boat as us, just a year or two delayed. They could still deal a couple of guys for prospects, but they have a lot of big contracts for a **** team.

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5 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Wait a month and it'll be the Royals again. Otherwise, I wouldn't say there's a team that definitively worse right now. Most teams either suck but have a decent system, or suck but have a decent record.

The Giants are in a similar boat as us, just a year or two delayed. They could still deal a couple of guys for prospects, but they have a lot of big contracts for a **** team.

i think were in for 5-10 years in the wilderness.

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Just now, Buddha said:

i think were in for 5-10 years in the wilderness.

I don't see why our rebuild would take twice as long as other team's rebuilds.

oh i forgot, everyone specifically associated with the Tigers sucks.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

is there a team WORSE built than detroit?

At the start of the year the biggest question mark was CF.  Instead, Mahtook has acted like an MLB starting CF and Jacoby Jones looks good enough to move him to a corner spot.

There was little question Miggy would OPS .850+.  Anyone who thought he would be this bad is lying.

There were people (definitely not me) who thought K-Rod was a great value at closer and that VMart would be OK at DH.  KRod stuck around just long enough to help get Detroit five games back off the division lead before Wilson was installed, and Vmart never really looked right once the team came north.  Then we traded KRod, and Greene has been very respectable.  The only shelter from VMart's lack of production has been his unfortunate failing health.  To be sure,  the implosion of KRod/Miggy/VMart was an important catalyst to the trading away of the core of this ballclub.  Should we be thankful the rebuild is here as a result?  Should we be super upset that someone like Frankie was allowed to close even though he was the worst arm brought north this year?  Both?

Corner OF spots were going to slug and provide great protection for Miggy, production for days.  Oh, and produce they did--but now they are gone.  Deuce and Pressley have done a nice job filling in, but JD and JUp they are not.

What we got was very different than what was expected, even if it was a .500 team.  What we have going forward is certainly debatable, but there's a gaggle of well-regarded pitchers, catchers and middle-infielders to work with and that's not a bad start.  Not many minus defenders in the system that figure into the future, with Stewart and Nick being obvious exceptions.

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43 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I don't see why our rebuild would take twice as long as other team's rebuilds.

oh i forgot, everyone specifically associated with the Tigers sucks.

because we are starting further behind than other teams.  and i dont believe in our team's ability to find and develop talent.

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42 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

At the start of the year the biggest question mark was CF.  Instead, Mahtook has acted like an MLB starting CF and Jacoby Jones looks good enough to move him to a corner spot

 

Are you saying you believe JaCoby Jones looks like a player you want playing everyday on an outfield corner, or are you saying he can shift to the outfield corners as part of a bench role?

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36 minutes ago, Microline133 said:

 

Are you saying you believe JaCoby Jones looks like a player you want playing everyday on an outfield corner, or are you saying he can shift to the outfield corners as part of a bench role?

Neither, sorry for not being clear. 

Jones plays a good enough CF to shift Mahtook to a corner. Whether or not he can hit enough to play CF every day  remains to be seen. 

Ideally, it would be nice have Jones as a utility player--again, if he hits.  Did he just not grade out well enough at 2B or 3B to play there at MLB level? 

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1 hour ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I don't see why our rebuild would take twice as long as other team's rebuilds.

oh i forgot, everyone specifically associated with the Tigers sucks.

What is the average re-build time?  Sometimes teams build pretty quickly if things go right.  Sometimes teams start to re-build and the re-build is derailed by injuries or disappointments.  The quick re-build in 3-4 years people are talking about is certainly possible, but I also think it's the best case scenario especially for an organization which does not really have any elite prospects.  I am certainly hoping for a quick re-build but I can also see why some are afraid it's going to take a really long time.  

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33 minutes ago, Buddha said:

because we are starting further behind than other teams.  and i dont believe in our team's ability to find and develop talent.

I don't know that we're further behind anymore after the Aug 31 trades. Payroll concerns will be long gone after next season, and the farm system should be approaching middle of the pack with 4 guys generally considered to be top 100.

And just about any front office that's rebuilding has questions about their ability to find and develop talent, almost by definition, or they wouldn't be rebuilding.

So I don't see any objective differences between us and a generic rebuilding franchise. We're certainly not in as good as shape as the Braves,

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Just now, tiger337 said:

What is the average re-build time?  Sometimes teams build pretty quickly if things go right.  Sometimes teams start to re-build and the re-build is derailed by injuries or disappointments.  The quick re-build in 3-4 years people are talking about is certainly possible, but I also think it's the best case scenario especially for an organization which does not really have any elite prospects.  I am certainly hoping for a quick re-build but I can also see why some are afraid it's going to take a really long time.  

I'm not saying they'll win the division in 2020, but that's when their window could start.

2021 is probably more realistic, as our top 2 picks in the '18 draft would hopefully be closer to ready by then, Manning is more likely to be ready by then, and any extra development time (in the minors or in Detroit) for the other SP prospects could push it back to then.

But I would view a window starting as a team that's young and projected around 80 wins. I'm not saying that'll happen with only the players currently in the system either.  I also think when we approach that window in house, there will be a foray into free agency as well, as there's only $60M on the books for 2020 and $30M for 2021.

Between Fulmer/Faedo/Manning/Burrows/Perez/Funk/Soto/???/Norris/Boyd you could realistically have 3 young rotation pieces, and when you have that I think you have something. I think we should have a good idea on what Faedo/Burrows/Perez will look like as MLB players sometime in 2019. And hopefully between a failed starter or two and the dozen power bullpen types we have in the minors, we have the core of a decent bullpen by then, as well as more pitching depth at AA/AAA.

I'm not saying we'll be the 2012-2015 Tigers or the current Houston Astros, even I'm not that optimistic. Just hoping for a watchable team.

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18 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Neither, sorry for not being clear. 

Jones plays a good enough CF to shift Mahtook to a corner. Whether or not he can hit enough to play CF every day  remains to be seen. 

Ideally, it would be nice have Jones as a utility player--again, if he hits.  Did he just not grade out well enough at 2B or 3B to play there at MLB level? 

I'm not a huge Jacoby fan, but for the 2018/19 Tigers there are worse things than running him out in CF a lot of games. His defense would help get our pitchers to the dugout a bit quicker, and he will have plenty of time to work things out in the batting cage and at the plate.

He's kind of an ideal bridge for a poor team in that way, good defense to stabilize at least *something* like a vet might, yet some upside to work with, with future seasons in mind.

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15 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I don't know that we're further behind anymore after the Aug 31 trades. Payroll concerns will be long gone after next season, and the farm system should be approaching middle of the pack with 4 guys generally considered to be top 100.

And just about any front office that's rebuilding has questions about their ability to find and develop talent, almost by definition, or they wouldn't be rebuilding.

So I don't see any objective differences between us and a generic rebuilding franchise. We're certainly not in as good as shape as the Braves,

i dont think we have any elite hitting prospects in the whole system.  the last round of trades didnt change that.  nor do i think we have any elite pitching prospects, but rather have a bunch of arms that project as potential #3 starters.  maybe #2 if things really go well.

the hope is that the next two drafts can produce superstar hitting talent.  and even that will be 2 or 3 years away from competing at a major league level if were lucky.

if were lucky we can draft a kris bryant or a justin verlander.  but that doesnt happen every day.

ask the phillies.

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