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Who is the Drizzle?

Justin Verlander Traded to Astros

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2 hours ago, TigerNation said:

Not that much, it rose about 100-200 depending on which source you use. On Pitch F/X his spin rate went from 2,612 in 2017 to 2,840 so far this year. According to statcast it went from 2,532 in 2017 to 2,629 so far this year.

JV has always been able to hit 3K on a good day. I would guess if his average is up it's because he is more consistent.

a difference of 200 for Cole could be similar  - I'm not familiar enough with Cole's numbers to know if what he is doing now is a higher max than he has been able to hit or not. If a guy's max numbers go up, I would be more suspicious than if his average comes up because his variance to the slow side goes down.

One other thing is that from what I've read (and others here may know a lot more about this than I do) the Statcast system is new and upgraded HW from the original F/X hardware so there may be some variations produced by that change as well.

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16 hours ago, TigerNation said:

What measurement are you using here?

Pitch value from fangraphs

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On 5/5/2018 at 12:53 PM, TigerNation said:

The whole kerfuffle is based upon Cole's increased spin rate. The RPM on his fastball is 200+ higher than in any previous seasons.

Or were they changing the wt distribution and making the ball more lopsided with spit or grease?  

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1 hour ago, NickCantCatch said:

Or were they changing the wt distribution and making the ball more lopsided with spit or grease?  

The accusation is that they use pine tar. Trevor Bauer tweeted about how the only way he knows how to increase his RPM so drastically is by using pine tar.

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Quote

 

Yep, Verlander coming into this one had a manifestly absurd ERA of 1.05 after 10 starts. Now his ERA stands at 1.08. Shame on him for falling short of his established standards. 

Remember after the 2014 season when many of us -- this scribe included -- were concluding out loud that Verlander was done and his Tigers contract would surely stand as one of the great boondoggles in the annals of same? Verlander has methodically laid waste to those conclusions, and in related matters he's looking better than ever.

He's now made 16 regular-season starts since being traded from Detroit to Houston toward the end of last August's waiver period, and over that span he's allowed a total of 15 runs in 108 2/3 innings. Throw in his six playoff appearances (five starts) during their run to the belt and the title last year, and Verlander has an ERA of 1.36 in 145 1/3 innings as an Astro. That's complete dominance at the run-prevention level, and the sample size isn't exactly tiny. 

 

Justin Verlander projected to accomplish a feat that hasn't been done in 75 years

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4 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

How come the Tigers never get guys like that?  

We do, we just wreck them in the minors.

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As Tweeted by ESPN's Kevin Negandhi after JV's win against the Yankees on Memorial Day:

Justin Verlander since joining the Astros (regular season starts): 115.1 IP 60 H 141 K 1.09 ERA Oh, and he's #1 in ERA, WHIP, Opp BA, Opp OPS

 

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6 hours ago, lordstanley said:

As Tweeted by ESPN's Kevin Negandhi after JV's win against the Yankees on Memorial Day:

Justin Verlander since joining the Astros (regular season starts): 115.1 IP 60 H 141 K 1.09 ERA Oh, and he's #1 in ERA, WHIP, Opp BA, Opp OPS

 

That's Drysdale-esque. This might be the year of the Ver vs Max All-Star match-up we've dreamed about.

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The Yankees and Dodgers were too cheap to pick up Justin Frigging Verlander for $20 million/year in 2018 and 2019. Truly a bunch of idiots.

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27 minutes ago, kdog said:

The Yankees and Dodgers were too cheap to pick up Justin Frigging Verlander for $20 million/year in 2018 and 2019. Truly a bunch of idiots.

Not to mention the Cubs picking Qunitana over him.  As upset as we are about losing him I'd probably be equally upset if I was a contender that couldve had him.

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Last time I saw JV in a Tiger uni, he was banging the back of his head against the back of the home dugout.  Guess he's a bit happier these days.

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To play Devil's Advocate a bit and throw some heat JV's way, as frustrated as we are at management for letting him go for seemingly peanuts(I'm not ready to give up on the prospects we got but it seems many have) shouldn't we also be frustrated with Verlander?  If he pitched like this for us last year we A. may stayed in contention longer and not had to sell or B. would've been able to fetch alot more from another team.  Maybe we would've been the ones that ended up with Eloy instead of the damn White Sox. 

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I have wondered when reading this thread if JV isn’t putting just a little bit of extra effort into making Detroit feel just a little love pain, a little forget-me-not.

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25 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

To play Devil's Advocate a bit and throw some heat JV's way, as frustrated as we are at management for letting him go for seemingly peanuts(I'm not ready to give up on the prospects we got but it seems many have) shouldn't we also be frustrated with Verlander?  If he pitched like this for us last year we A. may stayed in contention longer and not had to sell or B. would've been able to fetch alot more from another team.  Maybe we would've been the ones that ended up with Eloy instead of the damn White Sox. 

I agree that Verlander on occasion took a wrong turn trying to be better - but here is an alternate take:

I think there is some record both in the fangraphs data and in JV own comments that he had made changes to his arm angle early in 2017, ostensibly to increase his velocity (this was trick Dubee has used with other pitchers) but that turned out to cause loss of action (spin) on his pitches. It then took him a bunch of starts to work back to where he should have been - basically nearly into July. Now if the Tiger staff have been the Houston staff and understood that JV's spin was more important than his velo, maybe that whole episode doesn't happen and he continues to dominate all season the way he started off in ST.

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46 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

To play Devil's Advocate a bit and throw some heat JV's way, as frustrated as we are at management for letting him go for seemingly peanuts(I'm not ready to give up on the prospects we got but it seems many have) shouldn't we also be frustrated with Verlander?  If he pitched like this for us last year we A. may stayed in contention longer and not had to sell or B. would've been able to fetch alot more from another team.  Maybe we would've been the ones that ended up with Eloy instead of the damn White Sox. 

He should have won the 2016 Cy Young and was pretty dominant in 2017.  I recall a few potential no hitters recently.  

How much of his dominance is due to a better bullpen and defense?  Just asking.

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7 hours ago, lordstanley said:

As Tweeted by ESPN's Kevin Negandhi after JV's win against the Yankees on Memorial Day:

Justin Verlander since joining the Astros (regular season starts): 115.1 IP 60 H 141 K 1.09 ERA Oh, and he's #1 in ERA, WHIP, Opp BA, Opp OPS

 

Remember people like cubs fans and others saying he was done and that they'd only offer us some marginal prospect if we ate all the contract? 

How's that working out for you Cubbies? 

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5 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I agree that Verlander on occasion took a wrong turn trying to be better - but here is an alternate take:

I think there is some record both in the fangraphs data and in JV own comments that he had made changes to his arm angle early in 2017, ostensibly to increase his velocity (this was trick Dubee has used with other pitchers) but that turned out to cause loss of action (spin) on his pitches. It then took him a bunch of starts to work back to where he should have been - basically nearly into July. Now if the Tiger staff have been the Houston staff and understood that JV's spin was more important than his velo, maybe that whole episode doesn't happen and he continues to dominate all season the way he started off in ST.

I think some of his success was simply getting out of the Detroit Tiger organization.  Something about the Tigers has not been right the last few years ..since at least 2013 (IMHO.)  

Could it be Al Avila?  Could it be Chris Illitch (who even before his father Mike passed away may have been allowed more authority in all day-to-day 'owner' decisions?

Not saying as fact .. just speculating.  Nobody really needs reminding of all the talent the Tigers have basically 'squandered' since 2014.

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31 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

I think some of his success was simply getting out of the Detroit Tiger organization.  Something about the Tigers has not been right the last few years ..since at least 2013 (IMHO.)  

Could it be Al Avila?  Could it be Chris Illitch (who even before his father Mike passed away may have been allowed more authority in all day-to-day 'owner' decisions?

Not saying as fact .. just speculating.  Nobody really needs reminding of all the talent the Tigers have basically 'squandered' since 2014.

I think you are all forgetting his injury, and the length of time it took to fully recover from it and regain his mechanics.

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1 hour ago, Longgone said:

I think you are all forgetting his injury, and the length of time it took to fully recover from it and regain his mechanics.

His ERA the last two months of 2016 was about 2. He was dominating at the end of season. I don't think anything physical was bothering him going into 2017.

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2 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

I think some of his success was simply getting out of the Detroit Tiger organization.  Something about the Tigers has not been right the last few years ..since at least 2013 (IMHO.)  

Could it be Al Avila?  Could it be Chris Illitch (who even before his father Mike passed away may have been allowed more authority in all day-to-day 'owner' decisions?

Not saying as fact .. just speculating.  Nobody really needs reminding of all the talent the Tigers have basically 'squandered' since 2014.

I think we had a pretty bad manager, but that is not supposed to matter.

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29 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

His ERA the last two months of 2016 was about 2. He was dominating at the end of season. I don't think anything physical was bothering him going into 2017.

He didn't feel like he had his mechanics completely back until June of 17. When you are injured you try to make adjustments to compensate, it can take a while, when healthy, to get the original mechanics back.

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31 minutes ago, Longgone said:

He didn't feel like he had his mechanics completely back until June of 17. When you are injured you try to make adjustments to compensate, it can take a while, when healthy, to get the original mechanics back.

I'm just looking at the numbers. He was already pitching just as well  in 2016 as he is now. The only question is what happened at the beginning of the regular season in 2017. Did he get out of whack  by accident or on purpose? The charts say he raised his arm angle. Maybe it was some kind of accident, my own take is that he was chasing an mph or so more velo since Dubee had worked  along that line with a couple other pitchers (Boyd at least I believe). But whether it was by accident or intent, it didn't work for JV. So I agree he was definitely working on getting his right mechanics *back* by mid-season 2017 and yes I agree he was saying as much at the time.

Whatever the fact was, this org is going to have to do a lot winning before I ever accept that trade as having been good for the org.

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I'm just looking at the numbers. He was already pitching just as well  in 2016 as he is now. The only question is what happened at the beginning of the regular season in 2017. Did he get out of whack  by accident or on purpose? The charts say he raised his arm angle. Maybe it was some kind of accident, my own take is that he was chasing an mph or so more velo since Dubee had worked  along that line with a couple other pitchers (Boyd at least I believe). But whether it was by accident or intent, it didn't work for JV. So I agree he was definitely working on getting his right mechanics *back* by mid-season 2017 and yes I agree he was saying as much at the time.

From JP Morosi:

"By Verlander's count, that was the 10th different hypothesis he tested during film and bullpen sessions in April and May last season. On this date last year, his ERA was 4.87.

"If I go back and look at the things I tried, they all made sense [after] that," Verlander said. "Once I found the way the elbow tracked, I [realized], 'If I fix this, everything should fall into place.' And it did."

Verlander remembers the night when it all clicked: June 21 in Seattle. He was perfect through five innings and struck out a season-high 11 batters. Even though the Tigers lost, Verlander knew he was back. "

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