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Who is the Drizzle?

Justin Verlander Traded to Astros

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5 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

That's not an insult, sounds like he's a real nice prospect; but he ain't Justin Verlander.... we are definitely going to be a real ****y team for 2018 and probably 2019 as well.  

Anybody's guess after that, but if Chris Ilitch isn't going to spend money we're going to continue to suck after 2019 too, with Perez or without him.

They are going to have to get really lucky with at least two of Manning, Burrows, Faedo exceding their already high expectations because otherwise I don't see where the pitching for a rebuild is coming from. Otheriwise we go into 2019 with Fulmer and 6 #5s

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4 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Doug Fister wishes he had a mid-90s fastball just once. just once.

Well if  he develops Doug fister's off-speed repertoire he'll be more like Roy Halladay.   that would be sweet..... but for now we're going to suck for a while

And pardon me for not being a GD bean counter right now, but I really don't like trading JV...... I don't give a s*** who we get back right now.... I don't like trading JV. Period.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

They are going to have to get really lucky with at least two of Manning, Burrows, Faedo exceding their already high expectations because otherwise I don't see where the pitching for a rebuild is coming from. Otheriwise we go into 2019 with Fulmer and 6 #5s

2020. if those guys bust we're ****** no matter what we do.

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I'm hoping that Justin gets to pitch at Comerica next year, I'm guessing if he does that will be one of the few games that will be packed. 

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2 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

2020. if those guys bust we're ****** no matter what we do.

well you guys can track that for me, I may be checked out on this team until then.

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

well you guys can track that for me, I may be checked out on this team until then.

Same.  Just nothing to hope for or get excited about with this team in the foreseeable future.

Things can change quickly, but I'm definitely not getting my hopes up.

And we're going to Sundays game to celebrate a friend's birthday.  Should have waited to buy those tickets.

 

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This isn't something where I'm going to wake up tomorrow and think better about it.  

This is a fundamental part of modern sports that I really f****** hate; the idea that these guys are just changeable parts and it's all some kind of f****** bottom line business.

It's not something that I am ever going to like.

IF this team ever gets back to playing championship baseball I'll like that, but I'm still not going to like this trade or any trade like it, no matter how it plays into their future success.

There are very few players that I care to see stay on any team until they retire, and JV is definitely top on that list.

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30 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Like Machievelli said, when an effective leader knows something painful has to be done, do it all at once so people start getting over it as soon as possible. 

I kinda entered the year thinking that this was the end of the line for this current iteration of the Tigers. It couldn't have lasted forever, not should it have (see, Detroit Red Wings).

It's gonna be a rough few years... but look at the team Verlander is going to. They cut roster, built the farm, sucked like holy **** in 2012-2013. And look at where they are now.

I understand being sad, but there's no point being mad, this just needed to happen 

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Sorry to be underwhelmed by the return for all of the trades but part of it is that the Tigers player development is pretty dreadful. That's why I wanted someone closer to NOW.    I don't expect our staff to turn these players into better versions of themselves.    It's not like the Tigers have had a steady stream of players they developed over the years.  Their drafts are usually respected - they seem to get the players about where they are slotted to go, but they all seem to fizzle out.      Until Nick C puts together a solid full season who are the really good position players this team has developed through their system - Curtis Granderson, Travis Fryman, and Avi Garcia........maybe Bobby Higginson?  Too early on Nick and James McCann.   I don't trust this team's management.   I really thought they could do better than this.  I thought Houston seemed pretty desperate, a better GM would have fleeced them.  

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4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I kinda entered the year thinking that this was the end of the line for this current iteration of the Tigers. It couldn't have lasted forever, not should it have (see, Detroit Red Wings).

It's gonna be a rough few years... but look at the team Verlander is going to. They cut roster, built the farm, sucked like holy **** in 2012-2013. And look at where they are now.

I understand being sad, but there's no point being mad, this just needed to happen 

I get the things had to change a lot, and I was prepared for that; but of course there is a point to being mad when the team gets blown up and our drafted first-ballot hall-of-famer gets traded away; just like there's a point to being happy when things go really well, right?

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4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I understand being sad, but there's no point being mad, this just needed to happen 

yep, there's no rules on how to fan. just find a way that makes you happy. and if it doesn't anymore, stop. that's great too.

i'll be following the minors and rooting for the astros in the postseason, but that's just one way.

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A young Bartolo Colon, Mike Cameron, and Brad Ausmus doesn't seem like a bad return for JV.

It'll be interesting to watch all these young kids grow up and see if they can turn the Tigers into a contender again....

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Bob Nightengale says that the Tigers will pay 8million a year towards Verlander's salary the next two seasons.   That's not bad, I remember an article Fangraphs posted like a month ago where they said the Tigers would likely have to eat 30+ million of the contract to get a good package back.  This is quite a bit less than that.

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12 minutes ago, holygoat said:

I'm excited for the rebuild. I don't like losing JV, but I liked the direction of the team even less. 

To be honest, I've lost more interest in the Tigers simply from their drift into the abyss of being a slower, older, more bloated roster. And saddled with an anemic minor league system.

It is what it is. I know for a fact that they were not going to win a WS on the trajectory they were on, it was time to reset. I'm more optimistic about the future than I was at the beginning of the day.

Overall, my main regret and what I'm most disappointed about is that JV never ended up getting the ring with the Tigers. I hope he has more success down in Houston. They could use a morale boost right now, id love to see him help deliver that

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You know, I take it back - about position players - they haven't really done much in developing pitchers either.  That's a myth.  For all these great power arms we hear about - what do they have to show for it............Verlander and Porcello - and they really didn't even spend much time developing them in the system - they were both in the majors quickly.   Where are all these other great pitchers we always hear about?   Andrew Miller developed elsewhere.   The Tigers didn't develop Fulmer or Scherzer they were pretty much MLB ready.    This team really hasn't developed much of anything since the early 80s.     That's why none of these trades make me happy.  These guys all seem to be at least 2 years away - and the Tigers will probably wreck them by then.   I am very angry right now.    Dombrowski would have robbed Houston blind.  

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As sad as it is to see Justin go, I'm ready for the full rebuild. I'm confident that if we hold on to young talent and draft well, it won't take as long as a lot of people might think. Maybe Justin will be back here in the Kenny Rogers role when we win the series in 2021. 

It's going to be ugly for a couple of years. 

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3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You know, I take it back - about position players - they haven't really done much in developing pitchers either.  That's a myth.  For all these great power arms we hear about - what do they have to show for it............Verlander and Porcello - and they really didn't even spend much time developing them in the system - they were both in the majors quickly.   Where are all these other great pitchers we always hear about?   Andrew Miller developed elsewhere.   The Tigers didn't develop Fulmer or Scherzer they were pretty much MLB ready.    This team really hasn't developed much of anything since the early 80s.     That's why none of these trades make me happy.  These guys all seem to be at least 2 years away - and the Tigers will probably wreck them by then.   I am very angry right now.    Dombrowski would have robbed Houston blind.  

None of that has anything to do with Avila or the current regime.  Yes they have had a horrible time developing players but that was under different people, if anything Avila has done a good job of revamping that aspect of the organization.  There have been a number of guys in the minors that have taken a step forward this year.   Also what makes you think Dombrowski would have done any better?  What Dombrowski did best was trade overhyped prospects, he didn't do that great of job for trading for them.  

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Sad to see JV go. He was the clear symbol of the 2006 renaissance and was an incredible all around player for over ten years. Around the july deadline time, I was just hoping we could keep him, Upton and get rebounds from some of our SPs next years + Miggy. That's looking more like a pipe dream. In July, it also looked like we would basically have to accept little and eat a lot just to move him. JV's excellence this last month seemed to change a lot. 

I was talking to a friend earlier today, told him it was hard to see how JV's trade value could get better in the offseason. He's pitching like a legit ace now. There are multiple teams that could use him, Astros most obviously. And now that we have moved Upton, earliest next window is at least two years away, no sense in burning that if we can get a good return.

And it looks like we did get a good return. Perez seems like a legit top 50 prospect. Already in AA at 19. Do I wish the headliner wasn't a high risk SP, sure? But Perez is easily our top prospect and if he stays healthy, looks like a guy who should be able to contribute by 2020.

Daz seems to have a ton of talent and tools and is still only twenty in the tough on hitters MWL. He's shown some real improvement lately too:

First half

ba .206 .obp 287  slg.374 . ops 661

63 to 22 k to bb ratio in 214abs

Second half

ba 332  obp .406 .slg 552  ops .958

45 to 23 k to bb in 232 abs

Jake Rogers is a good fielding C with a great arm and an 814 ops in hi-A.

Daz probably fits in somewhere in the 5 range in our system. Rogers around 10. As for closeness to MLB. Perez probably starts next year in AA, could be in the show by 19. Daz probably goes to Hi A. Rogers to AA.

That's a pretty huge boost to the system and now we are where we probably should be, in total rebuild mode. This terrible team should pick no later than 5 next June, which should send another jolt to the system. We have more in international to spend.  

Offseason should see Kinsler go. Eat a few bucks and maybe get something worthwhile. I guess Greene or Wilson or Iglesias could go too. 

Next year, the competition will be for number one pick, then hopefully by 20 or 21 we're back in the mix. It's not all done with prospects/draft picks, but hopefully, two of the players we picked up today play roles in the core of the next good Tigers team.

 

 

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