Tenacious D

50 Game Left. What Would You Do (i.e., WWYD)?

45 posts in this topic

I'm beginning to become more optimistic that upton will opt in. I think it's going to be hard for him to match his current deal, and I think Al will try to win in 2018. 

The deal is for four more years, and even if they go through a down period for a couple years, it doesn't have to be a long process where upton will be stuck. Besides, if a rebuild needs to happen, upton is probably traded to a contender. So I don't think he's going to opt out just because he wants to play for a better team. A team he chooses in free agency could struggle, too

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On 8/10/2017 at 8:26 AM, Shelton said:

The Tigers? I don't know that they have committed to a true rebuild at all. If they trade JV, that changes things. 

I was thinking this not long ago. They have never used the term "rebuild" that I remember. However, Avila did mention wanting to reduce payroll. To me, reducing payroll without rebuilding sounds like putting a cheaper product on the field in Detroit (to increase shareholder returns?) is the priority, and building a strong system for the future is down the list some.

Some may believe we can contend forever by shifting around pieces via trades and free agency, but that sounds like treading water to me because I think the window we had open from 2006 through 2014 has shut. I think it's time to seriously bite the bullet and retool. All we need now are competent professionals in the front office who know how to do that. Best case magical scenario is that we already have that.

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I'm beginning to become more optimistic that upton will opt in. I think it's going to be hard for him to match his current deal, and I think Al will try to win in 2018. 

The deal is for four more years, and even if they go through a down period for a couple years, it doesn't have to be a long process where upton will be stuck. Besides, if a rebuild needs to happen, upton is probably traded to a contender. So I don't think he's going to opt out just because he wants to play for a better team. A team he chooses in free agency could struggle, too

So do I.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I was thinking this not long ago. They have never used the term "rebuild" that I remember. However, Avila did mention wanting to reduce payroll. To me, reducing payroll without rebuilding sounds like putting a cheaper product on the field in Detroit (to increase shareholder returns?) is the priority, and building a strong system for the future is down the list some.

Some may believe we can contend forever by shifting around pieces via trades and free agency, but that sounds like treading water to me because I think the window we had open from 2006 through 2014 has shut. I think it's time to seriously bite the bullet and retool. All we need now are competent professionals in the front office who know how to do that. Best case magical scenario is that we already have that.

I believe the comment about payroll reduction was in reference to to the luxury tax. Reducing payroll to below the tax is no big deal. Reducing payroll to something substantially below the tax is another matter entirely (and difficult to even achieve).

But it was also built in that the payroll would get below the tax after this year with the contracts coming off the books. 

I don't think he ever said they needed to trade away salary, for example. 

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

I don't think he ever said they needed to trade away salary, for example. 

He's said the opposite and on multiple occasions... That he's under no pressure to deal away salary

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6 hours ago, irvink said:

He's said the opposite and on multiple occasions... That he's under no pressure to deal away salary

In fact, Al has said that one reasons to get payroll down is to be able to sign someone where they think it could make a difference - which you do no have the freedom to do when you are pushing the cap. Not that I  think they are looking to make big FA signings anytime soon, but just to keep in mind that having the flexibility to get bet better is also part of the mix.

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11 hours ago, Shelton said:

I'm beginning to become more optimistic that upton will opt in. I think it's going to be hard for him to match his current deal, and I think Al will try to win in 2018. 

The deal is for four more years, and even if they go through a down period for a couple years, it doesn't have to be a long process where upton will be stuck. Besides, if a rebuild needs to happen, upton is probably traded to a contender. So I don't think he's going to opt out just because he wants to play for a better team. A team he chooses in free agency could struggle, too

Opting in would be the sensible thing, simply because he isn't going to get anything close to 4/88 on the free agent market.  Not even close.  I think that the true market for his decent-but-not great corner bat, without great defense or baserunning, is 4/72.  He's not a $20 million player, he just isn't.  Unless he wants to take a 3/60 deal, which might be the best thing that he'll see.  So it all depends on how stupid his agent is.  If his agent is as stupid as Edwin Encarnacion's, he'll opt out.  And then I'll offer him 4/72 to come back, and it will be the highest offer on the table.

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I don't really care too much about the send offs for Sanchez and Victor to finish out the season. But neither has any business on the roster next year. 

Victor will be 40 next year. He's been downright terrible this season. Just cut bait and release him if he refuses to retire. I highly doubt anyone is going to handcuff themselves and take a guy that literally can't do anything. 

Sanchez can go to the NL on a cheap deal and probably pass as a 4-5 starter. 

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I'd tank as much as possible to move up in the draft. 

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I would do the opposite of what stanpapi says. 

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I highly doubt, however, that the organization will eat $18 million. I also don't believe Victor is going to retire, so I bet he's on the team next year. 

I'm curious if they deal Kinsler or Iglesias. I think one of them has to go to allow Machado a chance to play every day. 

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2 hours ago, Sydney_Fife said:

I highly doubt, however, that the organization will eat $18 million. I also don't believe Victor is going to retire, so I bet he's on the team next year. 

I'm curious if they deal Kinsler or Iglesias. I think one of them has to go to allow Machado a chance to play every day. 

I don't see the  Tigers being very concerned about Machado's playing time. I don't see much indication anyone thinks he is an impact player - he's more a transitional guy that may start a year or two.. Iglesias' defensive numbers are top 3 in the league - I don't he's going anywhere. Kinsler  - I could easily see them moving him or buying him out and letting Machado or one of the newbies try 2b, but I would  believe it would be more about not thinking Kinsler is worth it than because they are think playing Machado is a must move.

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If the middle of your infield is as good defensively as Iglesias and Kinsler have been this season, that is an excellent anchor to build you defense around.  I wouldn't move one to get Machado more playing time just because just about everything else about this season stunk.

Just dump Robomb.

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I don't think the Tigers are worried about Machado's development--I think they believe he would be an adequate replacement for Iglesias, who I've been told, is a bit of a douchebag in the clubhouse and will also make $5 million next year.  Machado will get $750K.

During the Dombrowski/Mike Ilitch era, $4.25 million savings didn't seem like a big deal, but I think the new administration will see it differently, especially if they can turn Iglesias into a useful asset.  Not sure they'd waive him to save the difference in salary.

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It would be predicated on getting something valuable for Iglesias.  I cannot imagine they are going to non tender him.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It would be predicated on getting something valuable for Iglesias.  I cannot imagine they are going to non tender him.

I also think it is highly unlikely that they nontender him. The only possibility is if they decide to keep Kinsler and they also really like machado. Or, if they really don't want to spend 6-8 million for a good SS and would rather spend 500k for a maybe ok SS. 

But in either case, they would explore trades for him before just letting him walk. And I suspect that there could be a team or two out there that might want him. 

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4 hours ago, Shelton said:

I also think it is highly unlikely that they nontender him. The only possibility is if they decide to keep Kinsler and they also really like machado. Or, if they really don't want to spend 6-8 million for a good SS and would rather spend 500k for a maybe ok SS. 

But in either case, they would explore trades for him before just letting him walk. And I suspect that there could be a team or two out there that might want him. 

I agree.  I think the Iglesias probably has more trade value than actual value.  See if there is a decent return out there and then role with Machado.  

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Don't move Kinsler or Iglesias..when you struggle with the pitching ...  you can't afford to let the fielding go to **** also

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