Tenacious D

50 Game Left. What Would You Do (i.e., WWYD)?

45 posts in this topic

If I’m Avila, I’d make the following moves:

  • Fire Ausmus, replace with Vizquel to see if he can do the job on an on-going basis.
  • Shutdown Fulmer for the rest of the season—no reason to tempt fate with the guy.
  • Place Cabrera on the 10-day DL—needs the rest.  Clearly, he has some issues and getting some time off might help, so he can end the season on a positive note.  Replace him with Candelario.
  • Create an equal rotation at 2B and SS between Kinsler, Iglesias and Machado, to get Dixon more playing time in order to evaluate him better.
  • Cut Sanchez and call up Farmer to replace him.  Would like to know if we can finally count on him for next season and beyond and giving him an occasional spot start makes it hard to assess.
  • Continue to play Mahtook every day in order to assess his role moving forward.
  • Call up Stewart in September—let him cut his teeth and get some AB’s
  • Move Derek Hill to Lakeland today.  He’s demonstrated that he has his timing back and needs to be pushed to get him back on his development track.

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Play the young fellas and implement a "tank without really tanking" strategy to get a higher draft pick.

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If I was Avila, I would push the team to win as many games as possible.  Then at the end of the season, I would fire myself. 

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 Stay the course, read my lips, no new changes. 

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  • Mahtook in CF every day and hitting high in the lineup.
  • Machado gets a little bit more playing time.
  • Fulmer is treated cautiously.
  • Stewart to AAA right now.  Evaluate before possible September call up.  Same with Gerber, although he is currently rehabbing in Lakeland?
  • Candelario called up for September.  I don't believe Castellanos is an OF, but if they want to experiment, fine, no problem.  Cabrera gets some more time at DH.  Castellanos can get some reps at 1B.  This relegates MartinezV to the bench, which is fine.
  • Farmer & various pitchers promoted in September.  Mix & match in the rotation as needed.  A six man rotation wouldn't be the worst thing.
  • Jones can be promoted, it doesn't affect his options or anything.  I don't expect him to be much more than a bench guy, but let him get some time around the field and see if it works.  Primarily a RF platoon partner, but give him a chance around the OF and a game or two at 3B.
  • They'll call up a 3rd C, but no options are knocking down that door.  Might as well let Holaday be that guy.

That's what I'd do.  What I will do is probably soak up as much of the rest of the season before I curl up into a fetal position and weep hysterically for the lack of Tigers baseball that will be October - mid February.

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I see no reason to cut Sanchez yet.  I assume cutting him know places the Tigers on the hook for the 2018 team option.  So carry him through the rest of this season and give him his buyout as soon as possible.

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Over the course of the remainder of the year I think the most produtive activity the front office on down can involve themselves in is drinking. The fan base is already well into this exercise. 

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I wouldn't do anything differently than they are doing now. When Norris and Fulmer return, I would probably go with a six man rotation. When rosters expand, I would call up JaCoby and Jeimer and a couple pitchers. I would then start playing nick in right field. I would keep playing mahtook almost every day, with JaCoby getting a few games. 

I would try to trade JV to Houston for a substantial return. If that happens, then I'm trying to trade Ian too. 

Then I consider trying to get a godfather offer Fulmer in the offseason. 

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There are two players in the Rockies system, AAA to be exact, that are prime for a situation like Detroit presents currently. They are Jordan Patterson and Ryan McMahon. They both play a couple positions as needed. The primary stand out about these guys is that they have been very consistent in performance from low A to now. Disclaimer: I have followed (and been a fan) of these guys for several years now. They both won a league championship in Asheville in 2014. 

Shelton, I would be interested in your take on these guys after you look at their histories. They have been in the Rockies organization from the beginning. I'm not going to post all their numbers here but IMHO I believe both of these guys are ready for a legitimate shot at a roster spot somewhere in MLB. Patterson is currently on the 40 man, McMahon is not. They are currently in Albuquerque.

Opinions?

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McMahon has primarily been a 3B but has played some 2B this season.  I wonder how well he could handle 2B?  At only 22 years old, there's time to figure that out.  He has been seemingly consistent from season to season, and level to level.

Patterson seems like a decent gamble for RF.  He's 25 already, and doesn't seem to fit on Colorado's roster with all of the other LHH OF options that they have.

Rondon for McMahon.  Come on, make it happen.

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Thanks for checking the guys out Casimir. I appreciate your feedback. McMahon played 1st base some recently as well. So has Patterson. Patterson bats from the left and is by trade, a right fielder. He currently leads the Isotopes in home runs. In Asheville Patterson had a reputation for having a very solid work ethic.

Both these guys, particularly Patterson, remind me of Mahtook one year ago, very like siruations. 

I would love to see Patterson get a shot at RF in Detroit.

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I'm just a hack on a message board looking at numbers from bbref.  It'd be nice to know what professional scouts think about these guys and/or what Colorado has in store for them.

I like that both are left handed, I think that's something that the current lineup could use.  I like that they might be able to handle multiple positions, I think that is also something that will be key considering all of the 1B/DH types that the Tigers have.

McMahon  Patterson

Considering the ages of each and the situations that either could be in relative to the Tigers' roster....  

The more Upton hits, the more likely it is that he leaves.  The Tigers are currently going with a platoon in RF of Adduci/Romine.  Hardly something that couldn't be improved upon.  With Patterson, at least there is still some potential left and it looks like he might be squeezed out in Colorado.  He'd be an inexpensive contract, and even if he is platooned, there might be something there to work with.

With McMahon, he could work out at 2B in Toledo next season with Kinsler still around.  So that wouldn't be a bad situation.  And if he doesn't work out at 2B, if he's a natural 3B, then there'd still time to move him for another asset.  Bat looks good, you'd think you could move him for something.

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Patterson seems to have a pretty high floor even if he is not a starter. Wonder what it would take to get Tapia or even Dahl if the Rockies have soured on him. McMahon would require a significant return. He is moving towards top 50.

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18 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Patterson seems to have a pretty high floor even if he is not a starter. Wonder what it would take to get Tapia or even Dahl if the Rockies have soured on him. McMahon would require a significant return. He is moving towards top 50.

I skipped right over that.  I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

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I am somewhat surprised Dahl is not in Colorado on an everyday basis by now. He did have fhe spleen injury that set him back but I would have thought he would be with the Rockies by now. Tapia has had several call ups so I guess the organization sees something in him. Didn't realize Dahl is currently on the 7 day DL. 

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26 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Patterson seems to have a pretty high floor even if he is not a starter. Wonder what it would take to get Tapia or even Dahl if the Rockies have soured on him. McMahon would require a significant return. He is moving towards top 50.

I realize the big unknown is, how much time is the organization willing to commit to a true, botton up, rebuild? I have no idea. Does anyone? 

 

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1 minute ago, 1776 said:

I realize the big unknown is, how much time is the organization willing to commit to a true, botton up, rebuild? I have no idea. Does anyone? 

 

The Tigers? I don't know that they have committed to a true rebuild at all. If they trade JV, that changes things. 

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22 minutes ago, Shelton said:

The Tigers? I don't know that they have committed to a true rebuild at all. If they trade JV, that changes things. 

I'm not sure that does.  This is still a team with many veterans, including Miggy, Upton, VMart, Zimmerman and Kinsler.  Iglesias, McCann, Greene and Castellanos can no longer be considered green, either.  There is still a core intact.

However, it might be the Tigers intent to do a full rebuild, but many of the contracts they have will prevent them from doing that.  I think moving JV gives them some financial relief, while stocking the farm system.  I think that's why they are reluctant to pay a significant portion of his salary and are still insisting on top prospects.  Which makes it more likely that he won't be dealt.

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3 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I'm not sure that does.  This is still a team with many veterans, including Miggy, Upton, VMart, Zimmerman and Kinsler.  Iglesias, McCann, Greene and Castellanos can no longer be considered green, either.  There is still a core intact.

However, it might be the Tigers intent to do a full rebuild, but many of the contracts they have will prevent them from doing that.  I think moving JV gives them some financial relief, while stocking the farm system.  I think that's why they are reluctant to pay a significant portion of his salary and are still insisting on top prospects.  Which makes it more likely that he won't be dealt.

I just think that any real chance to compete in 2018 requires the entire team to return intact and be supplemented with a couple medium signings. 

If you trade JV, there probably isn't a reasonable path toward contending, so a guy like Kinsler is probably traded, too. And of course there is the upton thing that we can't control. 

The upton thing will probably be the first domino. And I think there is a good chance that JV won't be traded until they know what happens with him. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

I just think that any real chance to compete in 2018 requires the entire team to return intact and be supplemented with a couple medium signings. 

If you trade JV, there probably isn't a reasonable path toward contending, so a guy like Kinsler is probably traded, too. And of course there is the upton thing that we can't control. 

The upton thing will probably be the first domino. And I think there is a good chance that JV won't be traded until they know what happens with him. 

I agree with that.  Any big move could trigger a domino effect, though there are limitations (aging players, bad contracts, no-trade clauses) that might prevent us from executing a full rebuild.

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28 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I agree with that.  Any big move could trigger a domino effect, though there are limitations (aging players, bad contracts, no-trade clauses) that might prevent us from executing a full rebuild.

Yeah, we don't really have the types of players to do what the white sox did, for example. We don't have a sale, eaton, Quintana, and Frazier/Robertson/kahnle package to sell. 

The only asset we have resembling that is fulmer. 

If we did try a teardown, that would mean trading Fulmer and Kinsler and JV and castellanos. The return wouldn't be huge, but it would bring in some decent pieces. But probably not enough at a high level that would have us back to competing by 2019 or anything like that. It would probably mean a long and strained rebuild reliant on getting high draft picks that pan out three years down the line. 

Given that, it could make sense to try again with the current core. 2018 is possible. 2019 would see us lose Kinsler and Iglesias. But the money will be there to replace them if necessary. 

Personally, I want them to keep trying to win. 

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The other question that drives this has little to with any of the nuts and bolts of the roster or contracts, it's whether Chris Ilitch wants the 1st thing he is remembered for as new man in charge is taking the team into the wilderness. His mindset about incremental improvement on the fly versus tearing things down is just as important as any of the factors covered above, and it's mostly an unknown for now.

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44 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The other question that drives this has little to with any of the nuts and bolts of the roster or contracts, it's whether Chris Ilitch wants the 1st thing he is remembered for as new man in charge is taking the team into the wilderness. His mindset about incremental improvement on the fly versus tearing things down is just as important as any of the factors covered above, and it's mostly an unknown for now.

Indeed. I agree it is mostly an unknown, but to the degree that it is partially known, signs seems to indicate that he's not driving any sort of payroll reduction beyond getting the team below the luxury tax in 2018. And for all we know, that decision could be being driven solely by Avila. That could simply be due to a philosophy of Al that a team is better off long term remaining fiscally responsible and relying more on younger players and using analytics to find value rather than just paying large sums for established production. 

Al is a pretty open book. He says what he is is going to do and he does it. He has also said there is no mandate to cut payroll. He said the process of becoming more lean would take years. Nothing he has done to this date has been contrary to what he has said, so I see no reason to doubt him when he says he doesn't need to cut payroll. 

I suppose it is possible that Al could want to tear things down but Chris steps in and says no because he doesn't want to be viewed that way. 

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On 8/9/2017 at 5:08 PM, Shelton said:

I wouldn't do anything differently than they are doing now. When Norris and Fulmer return, I would probably go with a six man rotation. When rosters expand, I would call up JaCoby and Jeimer and a couple pitchers. I would then start playing nick in right field. I would keep playing mahtook almost every day, with JaCoby getting a few games. 

I would try to trade JV to Houston for a substantial return. If that happens, then I'm trying to trade Ian too. 

Then I consider trying to get a godfather offer Fulmer in the offseason. 

This is actually the only situation in which I would consider a six (or more) man rotation, especially in September: you want to try out a bunch of guys in real game situations when winning is no longer important.

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