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30 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I agree with you.   If you see my projection up above I hope they find a way to buy him out.   I just keep thinking that they aren't purely cutting an $18M contract.    Sharing 1B/DH with Miggy/Casty opens up the possibility of a Upton/Jones/Mahtook OF or another youngster replacing Upton if he opts out.

I didn't think there was a buy out option in baseball unless it is specifically written into a contract.  And even then, its probably in the form of an option of some sort.

But, regardless, the contract in question is what it is.  If they just eat it and move along with his roster spot to use on someone else, it seems like a a better option than hoping for a fountain of youth tonic.

I'm not so sure about Jones' chances starting in the OF.  He plays defense pretty well, but the offense is so bad right now.  I'm not so sure it works out even if Upton & Mahtook were to repeat what they are doing now.  

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45 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

 I hope they find a way to buy him out.   I just keep thinking that they aren't purely cutting an $18M contract.  

Victor has played a long time and I'm sure he think he has been worth what he was paid over his career. I don't see him cutting the Tigers a big refund check on 2018. That just doesn't happen in MLB. That is prevented by pressure from other players not to give back money if nothing else.

If they decide they don't want to play Victor - which is almost certainly the right move, then maybe a more likely scenario would be 60 day DL for the season and he retires off the DL at the end. He certainly has enough physical issues between the knees and this year the cardiac events that there would be nothing controversial about that.

I think the only way you get any money back from Victor is if he is crazy enough to be adamant that he wants to play, and the Tigers tell him they are not going to play him. Maybe at that point he would be willing to deal back some money in return for his release - but I think that is far fetched.

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

 

Victor has played a long time and I'm sure he think he has been worth what he was paid over his career. I don't see him cutting the Tigers a big refund check on 2018. That just doesn't happen in MLB. That is prevented by pressure from other players not to give back money if nothing else.

If they decide they don't want to play Victor - which is almost certainly the right move, then maybe a more likely scenario would be 60 day DL for the season and he retires off the DL at the end. He certainly has enough physical issues between the knees and this year the cardiac events that there would be nothing controversial about that.

I think the only way you get any money back from Victor is if he is crazy enough to be adamant that he wants to play, and the Tigers tell him they are not going to play him. Maybe at that point he would be willing to deal back some money in return for his release - but I think that is far fetched.

I think it's highly unlikely they would even attempt to put Victor on the 60 day DL unless he was actually injured and incapable of playing. For one thing, Victor isn't going to along with that. For another, it doesn't really save them any money. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think it's highly unlikely they would even attempt to put Victor on the 60 day DL unless he was actually injured and incapable of playing. For one thing, Victor isn't going to along with that. For another, it doesn't really save them any money. 

 

I don't think there is any money to be saved, if they don't want to play him the best they can do is get the roster spot back. The $ is gone. They could cut him, but that would probably be more embarrassing to Victor if no one picks him up. He certainly is not going to take a minor league assignment to try and play his way back unless he is way more desperate than I can imagine.

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Kind of a random thought, but I wonder if Tyler Collins may still have a future with the team. He's been hitting in Toledo and probably earns a September call up (if they are willing to give him a 40 man spot). He's out of options of course, but he's done enough that it makes sense to bring him to spring training. He could be a decent fourth outfielder if he hits. He's still only 27. For 2018, he could make sense on the bench and JaCoby could continue to get regular reps in Toledo. 

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52 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Victor has played a long time and I'm sure he think he has been worth what he was paid over his career. I don't see him cutting the Tigers a big refund check on 2018. That just doesn't happen in MLB. That is prevented by pressure from other players not to give back money if nothing else.

Agreed.   Baseball is much tougher on that than other sports.  It's a sunk cost, the question is whether the Tigers/Victor can come up with an acceptable solution to all.   Victor deserves some respect on the way out so I'm hoping they do.

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It's not out of the realm of possibility that the Tigers could reach an agreement with Victor over some sort of buyout. It doesn't happen often, but it isn't prohibited. 

Players have the right to retire and forfeit their contract. 

Teams have the right to release a player and pay him his money. 

There is room for a middle ground, especially if the player in question is genuinely considering leaving the game.

Victor could go to the Tigers and propose a buyout of five million in return for him retiring. 

When michael cuddyer retired a few years ago, he was giving up 12 million he could have made by staying with the team. The mets ended up giving him about 3 million. They didn't have to do that, because his mind was probably made up. But it's also possible that he spoke with management and they negotiated that settlement before he made the announcement. 

Gil meche simply walked away from his contract rather than collect money to spend the year on the DL. 

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The Tigers really need to hope for another offseason treadmill incident so that insurance picks up half of the freight for next year.  

Make him the first base coach for our next manager.

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20 minutes ago, Shelton said:

When michael cuddyer retired a few years ago, he was giving up 12 million he could have made by staying with the team. The mets ended up giving him about 3 million. They didn't have to do that, because his mind was probably made up. But it's also possible that he spoke with management and they negotiated that settlement before he made the announcement. 

Gil meche simply walked away from his contract rather than collect money to spend the year on the DL. 

The third case is that Chipper Jones negotiated a buy out when he hung them up. It's rare, it could happen. I just think Victor will show up in ST wanting to play. Or maybe what is really the most likely scenario is that he is going to hurt something else in winter workouts or ST and not be able to play anyway.

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I can certainly understand why Victor would want to play as it will be the last year in his life that he'll be able to do it.

But jeez, there is just no damn point to playing him full time unless he magically recovers his stroke.  If he's back he should be limited to no more than 200 PAs.

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

Kind of a random thought, but I wonder if Tyler Collins may still have a future with the team. He's been hitting in Toledo and probably earns a September call up (if they are willing to give him a 40 man spot). He's out of options of course, but he's done enough that it makes sense to bring him to spring training. He could be a decent fourth outfielder if he hits. He's still only 27. For 2018, he could make sense on the bench and JaCoby could continue to get regular reps in Toledo. 

It seems like Collins should be in the mix for ST, especially if he hits a little when he's called up in September.  JJ makes sense in Romine's role next year if he can't crack the OF, unless the Tigers are dead set on him being their CF of the future.

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19 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

It seems like Collins should be in the mix for ST, especially if he hits a little when he's called up in September.  JJ makes sense in Romine's role next year if he can't crack the OF, unless the Tigers are dead set on him being their CF of the future.

Bah.  Collins sucks.

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11 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Bah.  Collins sucks.

yeah, time to move on. If he could play an IF spot he'd be a nice utility guy but I don't see him having enough value to hold a roster spot. Of course that also depends on how bad they get!

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Can we even retain him at this point?  He doesn't have a spot on the 40-man, nor should we use one.  My guess is that he joins another org after this season.

His Matt Joyce-lite schtick is wearing thin in Toledo.

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I think a bench of machado and Collins and hicks would be fine. And it would allow you still carry a romine type if you want someone that can play everywhere. 

It depends a lot on how they view JaCoby. Maybe he's just a utility guy, and in that case he could make sense for the bench. But if they think he still has a future as an everyday player, you don't want him playing only once a week, especially given that his bat still has a lot of holes in it. 

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30 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think a bench of machado and Collins and hicks would be fine. And it would allow you still carry a romine type if you want someone that can play everywhere. 

It depends a lot on how they view JaCoby. Maybe he's just a utility guy, and in that case he could make sense for the bench. But if they think he still has a future as an everyday player, you don't want him playing only once a week, especially given that his bat still has a lot of holes in it. 

Romine has a shot at 300 PA this year, which I think would be a good goal for JJ next year.

27 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Collins has no spot on this team. I'd rather go with Adduci or Presley or the MiLBFA equivalent.

I'm not sure how much it matters who heads north out of ST, but that's fine.  Better yet, Gerber or Stewart forces them to make it a tough decision to send them to Toledo.

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29 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Collins has no spot on this team. I'd rather go with Adduci or Presley or the MiLBFA equivalent.

Ehhh, maybe. I love the duece, but I don't think he's more likely to be productive than Collins. Presley is kind of the same. I don't think any are substantially better than the others. In Collins, at least he still has age on his side. 

I don't like Collins, but I do think he has a chance to be better than those guys. 

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3 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Romine has a shot at 300 PA this year, which I think would be a good goal for JJ next year.

I'm not sure how much it matters who heads north out of ST, but that's fine.  Better yet, Gerber or Stewart forces them to make it a tough decision to send them to Toledo.

Regarding romine, he has hit those spots, but he's had stretches here where he has been a borderline everyday player this season. He had close to 200 PAs before the all star break. 42 games started out of something like 85 games played. That's a lot more than a typica bench player, right?

yeah, in may he started 19 games and had 89 PAs. In April he started 13 games. He started 8 games in June and 8 games in July. He's up to 10 in August already. 

With mahtook seemingly locking down CF, I think there will be limited time for a backup outfielder next year.  

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After losing games via indecision on Sanchez, KROD, Lowe, Pelfrey etc I hope Tiger management can be quick and decisive and focus on defense first. Rather than insisting that a given player "hits enough" for a particular position make sure they can play it well. I see Mahtook as a good RF not CF so play him there until a better hitting RF emerges that can also defend the position. Please no Nick C. in RF..he is a DH. Period. Just recognize that and plan accordingly. Same with other players. Collins..please no. Victor is done. Anaibel..goodbye. Jones..AAA until he hits. Machado to shortstop. He is cheaper and better than Igelsias. And bring in at least two good relievers and find a true Center fielder in the off season.

 

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Nope. Maybe 2b. but 6 of 7 is not bad. :P

Best percentage for me in decades..I will take it !...plus trading Kinslers 10 mil gets us those relievers. And we all know Kinsler will for ever more have a HUGE strike zone to deal with.

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3 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

Best percentage for me in decades..I will take it !...plus trading Kinslers 10 mil gets us those relievers. And we all know Kinsler will for ever more have a HUGE strike zone to deal with.

And if you trade Kinsler and put Machado at 2B then you change the payroll projection up there to keep Iggy?   Or do you still move on from him?    I have trouble justifying what I think he's going to get for an arb award.....thinking north of $4M?

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28 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Ehhh, maybe. I love the duece, but I don't think he's more likely to be productive than Collins. Presley is kind of the same. I don't think any are substantially better than the others. In Collins, at least he still has age on his side. 

I don't like Collins, but I do think he has a chance to be better than those guys. 

Collins has potential to be more, but I don't see him ever reaching that with the Tigers. I'd rather take a guy that can at least put the ball in play and play some solid defense for a 4th OF role. And someone who has options remaining.

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