Jump to content

RatkoVarda

JD Traded to Arizona

Recommended Posts

The Tigers had no leverage. He was going to be a free agent. Teams just aren't going to pay a lot for two months of JD Martinez. Also taking what he's doing in Boston now won't make him more valuable last year. JD Martinez is 30 years old and has only played one full season. His defense is declining. I'm not sure he was undervalued more so he was a risky signing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

I mean, around MLB, not necessarily posters here.

edit: Yeah @ he didn't sign until February 26th, but that's just more evidence how insane MLB has become. I agree that you don't want to give a big money long term contract to a chump like Mike Moustakas, but actual great hitters have somehow become very undervalued at the moment.

Naturally, the Tigers still ended up with zero of them.

JD has been underrated for a while.  I am not sure why.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JD was a rental, and the market for righthanded high-OPS without any speed or defense to go along with it was flat from the previous winter.  And Verlander, I still think of that as a mercy trade to get him the heck out of here, he didn't deserve to be on a crap team like this.  And that premier arm that came from the Astros might turn out to be something good.  Perhaps there is a GM out there who could have done better but we can't say that with any certainty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to think of a comparable player to JD in other sports in Detroit history.  Came out of nowhere, became incredibly popular, and sustained it.  Then had to leave because of organizational ineptitude.  It would have been a storybook career.

He more than anything represents the rise and fall of this franchise.  2014 was so much fun.  I remember a game in June or July.  A friend of mine was at an event on the roof of the Opera House and I was at the game.  We exchanged some texts during the game... "Hey, I see you", that type of thing.   Jose made a fantastic play at SS, the sellout crowd let out a huge roar.    I texted my friend "Did you hear that?".  Next half inning JD hit one into the camera well. He texts me back "Ok, what was that???"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

  And Verlander, I still think of that as a mercy trade to get him the heck out of here, he didn't deserve to be on a crap team like this.  

The way this trade went down will always be a negative for me. Verlander knew the org wanted him gone for prospects. Up until, literally, the last few minites he considered remaining a Tiger. I’ll never forget his quote to Kate as time forced his hand, “Screw it, we’re going to Houston.” He knew the Tigers wanted him out for prospects and he knew staying would probably not be viewed as a positive by management. Sad way to see one of the best ever all around guys have to leave Detroit. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Tigers had no leverage. He was going to be a free agent. Teams just aren't going to pay a lot for two months of JD Martinez. Also taking what he's doing in Boston now won't make him more valuable last year. JD Martinez is 30 years old and has only played one full season. His defense is declining. I'm not sure he was undervalued more so he was a risky signing. 

The Mets sure paid a lot for Cespedes and Toronto paid a lot for Price.  Jones was a nice return for a struggling reliever...at least he was a prospect.  We got zero for the best summer rental bat 2-weeks prior to the deadline.  I am just a frustrated fan but I believe DD would have got a bonafide prospect in return.  I just do not believe that AA is a good negotiator.  For the return we got, I would of prefered we keep JD and just enjoy the homers he hit for the last few months of the year.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, 1776 said:

The way this trade went down will always be a negative for me. Verlander knew the org wanted him gone for prospects. Up until, literally, the last few minites he considered remaining a Tiger. I’ll never forget his quote to Kate as time forced his hand, “Screw it, we’re going to Houston.” He knew the Tigers wanted him out for prospects and he knew staying would probably not be viewed as a positive by management. Sad way to see one of the best ever all around guys have to leave Detroit. 

 

I think you overrate his desire to remain with the Tigers.  Not saying he wouldn't have been ok with finishing his career here but he wasn't at all against the idea of leaving.  He publicly said he would have accepted a trade to LA or Chicago quicker.  I think it was more about wanting to go to Houston.  His hesitation wasn't because he wanted necessarily to stay.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I think you overrate his desire to remain with the Tigers.  Not saying he wouldn't have been ok with finishing his career here but he wasn't at all against the idea of leaving.  He publicly said he would have accepted a trade to LA or Chicago quicker.  I think it was more about wanting to go to Houston.  His hesitation wasn't because he wanted necessarily to stay.  

He was not in the organizations plans. The writing was on the wall. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Stark this morning in the Athletic:

Quote

 

The 60-Homer Seasons That Never Were.

The reason we can’t officially call them “seasons” – even though they last a full year – is that the time frame in which these men hit 60 homers runs from one All-Star break through the next year’s all-star break. There are currently six fabled sluggers in this club. And if J.D. doesn’t join them in the next month, we’ll be deeply disappointed.

Since last year’s all-star break, you see, Martinez has bopped 53 home runs – 31 in the second half last season, 22 so far this season. He has 28 games left until this year’s break. He has thumped 10 homers just in his last 24 games. And he’s rolling. So if all goes well, he’s got this.

But what has he got? Excellent question. If we eliminate the, ahem, usual suspects (Bonds, Sosa and McGwire, who combined to do this seven times), just three men in the history of all-star breaks have had one of those 60-Homer Seasons That Never Were. Bet you can’t guess all three!

Albert Belle (1995-96): 63
Ken Griffey Jr. (1996-97): 61
José Bautista (2010-11): 61

The near-misses — Mickey Mantle, Rocky Colavito, David Ortiz, Miguel Cabrera — might be even more fun than the guys who did it. But as magical as those names are, it’s that other group that holds the allure. So for J.D. Martinez, the magic number is seven. We’ll be counting along with him at home.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To this day, I'll never understand why we got so little for the best corner outfield bat 2-weeks before the deadline and I am not drinking the Kool Aid.  Also, I reject that Lugo - a player that never seen a pitch in any count that he didn't like - was ever a "jewel" of a prospect as AA called him.  I tell you I would never hire AA as a salesmen or purchasing manager after that one. 

Just in from Toledo...Lugo swung at the rosin bag on the mound. 

Maybe Alcantara will work out as a glove SS but he has to start eating his Wheaties.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, NickCantCatch said:

To this day, I'll never understand why we got so little for the best corner outfield bat 2-weeks before the deadline and I am not drinking the Kool Aid.  Also, I reject that Lugo - a player that never seen a pitch in any count that he didn't like - was ever a "jewel" of a prospect as AA called him.  I tell you I would never hire AA as a salesmen or purchasing manager after that one. 

Just in from Toledo...Lugo swung at the rosin bag on the mound. 

Maybe Alcantara will work out as a glove SS but he has to start eating his Wheaties.    

It's simple supply and demand to go along with leverage.   As good as JD was teams that were buying simply didn't have a need for a bat only corner outfielder.  Really the only teams that did were Arizona and to a lesser extent Cleveland.  Cleveland got Jay Bruce who was having a .900 OPS season for almost nothing, far less than what we got for JD.   So the demand simply wasn't there for him.   Players with JD's profile just aren't as sought after in this day and age as they used to be, there's a reason that teams weren't lining up the door to sign him this offseason same with Edwin Encarnacion the previous offseason. 

Then you had to look at our lack of leverage which was nill.  Teams knew that all we would get for him at the end of the season was a 4th round pick and they also knew that there weren't any contenders in the market for him.  So what were the Tigers going to do?  Tell them that if they don't give them a better off they were willing to settle for a 4th round pick?   Teams knew that was b.s.   Honestly when you look at everything they were lucky to even get what they got. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

Honestly when you look at everything they were lucky to even get what they got. 

I've felt that way before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We would have been much luckier if nobody made an offer and we could of enjoyed those HRs rather than take on two perennial minor leaguers.  

I don't get it.  JD's HR total would have tied for third best in Tiger's history.  Think about that for a minute.  Someone in the forum said "we were going to lose him I just as well have the lottery tickets."  I was thinking We draft 40 something guys a year Rule 4 (it used to be 65 rounds.)  We have international signings and Rule 5 signing, free agents etc.   That must be 80 Lottery tickets a year or so.  Meanwhile, only three Tigers have had a 45 Home run season or better in the history of the franchise?  

I can't wait till our next stretch run.  this will be easy.  **** we should pick up couple of guys.  One that will hit .900 Ops down the stretch and another that hits .300+ with 60 SBs and all we have to do is give up a Lugo, and Alcantara and some worthless Intl signing.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, NickCantCatch said:

We would have been much luckier if nobody made an offer and we could of enjoyed those HRs rather than take on two perennial minor leaguers.  

I don't get it.  JD's HR total would have tied for third best in Tiger's history.  Think about that for a minute.  Someone in the forum said "we were going to lose him I just as well have the lottery tickets."  I was thinking We draft 40 something guys a year Rule 4 (it used to be 65 rounds.)  We have international signings and Rule 5 signing, free agents etc.   That must be 80 Lottery tickets a year or so.  Meanwhile, only three Tigers have had a 45 Home run season or better in the history of the franchise?  

I can't wait till our next stretch run.  this will be easy.  **** we should pick up couple of guys.  One that will hit .900 Ops down the stretch and another that hits .300+ with 60 SBs and all we have to do is give up a Lugo, and Alcantara and some worthless Intl signing.  

 

I bet Arizona would take that deal back right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why?  why not take two more crappy players and 75,000$ Intl signing and go get another 29 homers.  Those guys they gave us are a dime a dozen.  What JD did for them comes along once or twice in a lifetime.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2018 at 10:05 PM, NickCantCatch said:

why?  why not take two more crappy players and 75,000$ Intl signing and go get another 29 homers.  Those guys they gave us are a dime a dozen.  What JD did for them comes along once or twice in a lifetime.  

Henning is higher on Lugo than you are....

Quote

Dawel Lugo, 2B: He could be the Tigers’ second baseman in 2019. Lugo is only 23, but has been progressing at Toledo, hitting .368 in his last 10 games and .286 on the year. He needs some upgrades, for sure, on the on-base side (.296, four walks) and slugging sphere (.388). But time remains his friend. He is 6-foot, 190 pounds, and bats right-handed. He was part of the cargo the Tigers got last summer when they peddled J.D. Martinez.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LooseGoose said:

Henning is higher on Lugo than you are....

 

I like that his description of him is basically "he sucks, but he is hitting well his last 10 games"

I mean, he is young, he COULD develop into a good player, but he's shown little of it so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Henning is high on Lugo?   Is that what they call it now? 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pyrotigers said:

I like that his description of him is basically "he sucks, but he is hitting well his last 10 games"

I mean, he is young, he COULD develop into a good player, but he's shown little of it so far.

Lugo seems like a guy that would benefit from getting ripped up for five or ten games at the big league level and sent back down after some harsh lessons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Henning is high on Lugo?   Is that what they call it now? 

Quaalugos.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2018 at 6:30 PM, LooseGoose said:

Henning is higher on Lugo than you are....

 

Let's hope that Henning is correct.  

I as actually baffled by the Kansas City trade.  At least it makes me feel a little better.  What an underwhelming return for a good reliever.  I wish teams were giving away good relievers back when were contending and we needed them.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, NickCantCatch said:

Let's hope that Henning is correct.  

I as actually baffled by the Kansas City trade.  At least it makes me feel a little better.  What an underwhelming return for a good reliever.  I wish teams were giving away good relievers back when were contending and we needed them.  

 

I still think Brad’s biggest mistake as tigers manager was the way he used soria after we traded for him. And DD let it happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shelton said:

I still think Brad’s biggest mistake as tigers manager was the way he used soria after we traded for him. And DD let it happen. 

Interesting point. Looking at BR, it is striking that Soria's FIP went from 2.15 in the 2 yrs before he joined the Tigers, to 4.94 with the Tigers, back to 1.93 for the year after he left. I would have said he handled Sanchez the worst, but you may have it there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/19/2018 at 7:45 PM, Shelton said:

I still think Brad’s biggest mistake as tigers manager was the way he used soria after we traded for him. And DD let it happen. 

That combined with sticking with Chamberlain too long after he lost effectiveness in the second half.  I remember that I was one of the people who was very critical of him at the time.  It's funny because I became one of his biggest supporters later on (not because I thought he was good, but that I believed he was getting to much blame). It was probably a coincidence, but I think he managed better after Dombrowski left.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

That combined with sticking with Chamberlain too long after he lost effectiveness in the second half.  I remember that I was one of the people who was very critical of him at the time.  It's funny because I became one of his biggest supporters later on (not because I thought he was good, but that I believed he was getting to much blame). It was probably a coincidence, but I think he managed better after Dombrowski left.  

Right, the deference to joba’s role at the expense of using soria consistently is what I was referring to. Or deferring to Nathan in the ninth. Soria should have been used ahead of both of those guys. Instead, it seemed like Brad would constantly warm up soria to come into the 7th, often not be used in the game at all. 

It was a long time ago, so I forget the details. I just seem to remember he wasn’t used in the best spots. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×