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2017 Trade Deadline Thread

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Just now, Stanley68 said:

I think Fulmer could bring back Eloy and another prospect.

That would be light.  Wouldn't be worth it to me.  Would have to be something crazy, or don't do it.

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50 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

 

But there's no way the Tigers re-sign JD with Upton on the books.

We have no idea what they will or won't do. I guess I say never say never. 

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2 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Cmon, there's no way you are going to build a "core" out of those guys.  There's some talent there but Knebel's the only one who appears to be plus-plus level talent.  The rest of them are complimentary players at this point, **maybe** one becomes a star for a year or two.

Didn't mean it that way.  If they were with the team, they would have more controllable pieces with good value.  I agree that Knebel is becoming a plus-plus closer.  He's flat out nasty.  When he struck out Judge, the ball was in the catcher's mitt before Judge started his swing.  Quite comical.

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2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

We have no idea what they will or won't do. I guess I say never say never. 

Avila had already stated he wasn't going to negotiate with him.  I don't think it's a secret that he's going to be too pricey for the Tigers.  And the Tigers must trade him.

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2 minutes ago, Microline133 said:

I think some of the Tigers fan base is seriously over-rating Stewart. 

Keeping him.

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1 minute ago, cruzer1 said:

Avila had already stated he wasn't going to negotiate with him.  I don't think it's a secret that he's going to be too pricey for the Tigers.  And the Tigers must trade him.

I don't think Avila has said that. And if he has, it was probably in regards to an extension. 

There is a difference between extending a guy and not trading him bs trading him and then bidding on him during free agency. 

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7 minutes ago, Shelton said:

You can pee back this onion a lot ways. I'm not saying I would rather have Perez than Kinsler. It's just an example of where having a vet forced a prospect to be disposed of. 

If we don't sign prince, nick is still a 3b all along. Garcia is not deemed expendable. If peralta isn't suspended, DD doesn't flip Garcia for iglesias. Even if the suspension happens, Suarez could have stepped in. 

Anyway, I was only giving examples of where signing a FA or having a vet that you hold on to can result in prospects ending up elsewhere.

the stuff adds up. 

At this point, we don't even have guys on the level of the guys mentioned.

Agreed that I'd take all of the moves back, and if we could do that, our <30 talent would be better than it currently is; if we could have just isolated these moves we would have been better off in the past too.

I was really arguing with Cruzer's assertion that if we took the moves back we'd have a "nice core" with those guys going forward.  

That's a decent little group of complimentary players but hardly the core of a winning organization.

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7 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Didn't mean it that way.  If they were with the team, they would have more controllable pieces with good value.  I agree that Knebel is becoming a plus-plus closer.  He's flat out nasty.  When he struck out Judge, the ball was in the catcher's mitt before Judge started his swing.  Quite comical.

I absolutely agree that they would have had more controllable pieces with value.  Not to be argumentative, but when I hear people talking about a core group of players, I assume that they mean players that you can build a winning team around.  These guys don't equal that, even if Knebel keeps pitching really well and Garcia keeps hitting well and Suarez and Perez keep doing what they are doing.  

To be clear, I'm NOT saying that these are bad players, don't get me wrong, and I would love to have them back now, especially since the moves that took them away wound up in hindsight adding way too little performance value to the team, less than the performance value of the guys we gave away.  Bad moves to be sure.

DD did a nice job getting some value in the Price/Cespedes trades, but he definitely whiffed on these other deals in his last couple of years....the injuries to Iglesias and his general lack of progression has been very disappointing, and Gose has just been a catastrophe.

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18 minutes ago, Microline133 said:

I think some of the Tigers fan base is seriously over-rating Stewart. 

Yeah, but he should get a shot if next season is a rebuild, no? I'm sure they'd give him some ABs over Jones, Presley, etc.

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13 minutes ago, Microline133 said:

I think some of the Tigers fan base is seriously over-rating Stewart. 

I see him as a semi-regular guy who is basically (a) low average (b) low on-base (c) high strikeout (d) pretty good power and (e) below average fielding skills.

Basically Ryan Raburn but without the plus arm and can only play in the OF.

Am I in the right ballpark?

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1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

I don't think they can have their cake and eat it too.  They need to let JD go so they can move Stewart in his spot, imo.  I'm hoping Upton opts out, opening up more money so that proper moves are made in the future.  I think it makes no sense to block a guy like Stewart, offensively he seems ready to hit and he is what he is defensively.  He'll be 24 next year, and should be up in a full time role next year.  He's also doing a nice job vs. lefties.

They need to move JD because they aren't signing him and they can get something for him, not because they need to open up a spot for a prospect.

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 I'd OFP Stewart as a role 5, decent regular, similar to the way Sabre drew up. I'd also give him less than 50-50 to pull it off. 

More likely, he's a second division player or bench bat with positively atrocious defense. That's not a guy you make  any decisions around. 

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4 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Yeah, but he should get a shot if next season is a rebuild, no? 

Why is 2018 a rebuild?  It's essentially the same team minus JD and Avila (and presumably Sanchez).  We could easily sign a stop gap to help fill the JD void for not a lot of money.  And I wouldn't be shocked to see us attempt to re-sign Avila, depending on his market. 

The key to competing in 2018 is our rotation, and that all hinges on whether JV and Zimm are going to bounce back, and if Norris and Boyd are going to ever develop.  Losing JD isn't the end of the world. 

 

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1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

I don't think they can have their cake and eat it too.  They need to let JD go so they can move Stewart in his spot, imo.  I'm hoping Upton opts out, opening up more money so that proper moves are made in the future.  I think it makes no sense to block a guy like Stewart, offensively he seems ready to hit and he is what he is defensively.  He'll be 24 next year, and should be up in a full time role next year.  He's also doing a nice job vs. lefties.

Melvin Nieves returns!  Oh joy.

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Stewart will always get on base.  Career .370 obp in minors so far.  60 HR's in 2.5 years.  He's good.  Not perfect, but good.  Valuable.

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4 minutes ago, Microline133 said:

 I'd OFP Stewart as a role 5, decent regular, similar to the way Sabre drew up. I'd also give him less than 50-50 to pull it off. 

More likely, he's a second division player or bench bat with positively atrocious defense. That's not a guy you make  any decisions around. 

I'll figure .240/.310/.450 then and hope he makes an unforeseen jump.

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7 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

They need to move JD because they aren't signing him and they can get something for him, not because they need to open up a spot for a prospect.

Right....I mean, I loved Marcus Thames, but I'd never move JD out of the way for him.  Marcus is Christin's upside.

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7 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

They need to move JD because they aren't signing him and they can get something for him, not because they need to open up a spot for a prospect.

What if they trade JD, then Upton opts out? 

I certainly wouldn't close the door on JD being back next year, even though I don't think it's likely.  A lot could still happen.

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1 minute ago, cruzer1 said:

Stewart will always get on base.  Career .370 obp in minors so far.  60 HR's in 2.5 years.  He's good.  Not perfect, but good.  Valuable.

He has a .338 OBP at the AA level at age 22-23....not bad, but doesn't project well with the low BA and the high strikeout level.

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3 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Stewart will always get on base.  Career .370 obp in minors so far.  60 HR's in 2.5 years.  He's good.  Not perfect, but good.  Valuable.

Guys like him are why we need Victor Martinez out of the way.  But you don't move high quality players like JD for him IMHO.

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2 minutes ago, ballmich said:

Why is 2018 a rebuild?  It's essentially the same team minus JD and Avila (and presumably Sanchez).  We could easily sign a stop gap to help fill the JD void for not a lot of money.  And I wouldn't be shocked to see us attempt to re-sign Avila, depending on his market. 

The key to competing in 2018 is our rotation, and that all hinges on whether JV and Zimm are going to bounce back, and if Norris and Boyd are going to ever develop.  Losing JD isn't the end of the world. 

 

As a fan I'm not writing it off, if the Twins can play .500 ball to the AS-break the 2018 Tigers can too. But as far as roster management, I'm focusing a year or two beyond that point.

I generally wouldn't make any trades that hurt the roster 2019 and beyond, and would only do cheaper stop gaps. Anything over $4M or $5M a year would give me hesitation.

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3 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I'll figure .240/.310/.450 then and hope he makes an unforeseen jump.

Sounds about right...he's got some serious raw power....I hope he gets a shot, but I would be appalled if we were counting on him for everyday play anytime soon.

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1 minute ago, sabretooth said:

He has a .338 OBP at the AA level at age 22-23....not bad, but doesn't project well with the low BA and the high strikeout level.

He's at .346 right now after a 1-18 (since July 4th, before that he was hot and was on prospect hot sheet).

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=621514#/career/R/hitting/2017/ALL

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