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2017 Trade Deadline Thread

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29 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

They might get a good prospect for Avila.  He'd be a FA I would be interested in at the end of the year (if the price is right); but his price will go up.  His value will never again be as high as it is now.

best case we get something for Alex, he comes back to earth in the second half and we sign him back for 5-8 for 2yrs or something like that in the off sesason.

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12 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I agree with all of this except the first part where FA got us into this mess by harming our minor league system.  I admit that I have not tracked who was drafted with the draft picks we traded away, but in the main the minor leaguers we traded were not that good.  Suarez is the only total bust trade of a prospect that I can recall.  The Travis trade **might** be a bust if Travis can stay on the field for a half of a season.

I didn't mean to suggest that FA was largely to blame for no farm system. But we did give up first rounders to sign guys and signing or retaining vets put us in position to feel like it was ok to trade guys like Suarez and Travis that were blocked (and putting hernan Perez on waivers)  

knebel and Thompson were traded for soria.

Travis Suarez Perez avi Garcia 

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I didn't mean to suggest that FA was largely to blame for no farm system. But we did give up first rounders to sign guys and signing or retaining vets put us in position to feel like it was ok to trade guys like Suarez and Travis that were blocked (and putting hernan Perez on waivers)  

knebel and Thompson were traded for soria.

Travis Suarez Perez avi Garcia 

Amen.  That would have been a nice core right now.  Only Thompson has flamed out, it appears.

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16 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I don't think they can have their cake and eat it too.  They need to let JD go so they can move Stewart in his spot, imo.  I'm hoping Upton opts out, opening up more money so that proper moves are made in the future.  I think it makes no sense to block a guy like Stewart, offensively he seems ready to hit and he is what he is defensively.  He'll be 24 next year, and should be up in a full time role next year.  He's also doing a nice job vs. lefties.

I don't see any need to give Stewart a spot until he is OPSing 900 in aaa. 

And if a spot needs to be opened up at some point next season, Victor can be given his walking papers. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

I don't see any need to give Stewart a spot until he is OPSing 900 in aaa. 

And if a spot needs to be opened up at some point next season, Victor can be given his walking papers. 

I don't think AAA is any more impressive than AA, although the parks are hitter friendly in AA right now.  Fwiw, Stewart hits his hr's to all fields like a Tiger should.

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3 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I don't think AAA is any more impressive than AA, although the parks are hitter friendly in AA right now.  Fwiw, Stewart hits his hr's to all fields like a Tiger should.

Either way, there is no downside to waiting until he does it. Maybe he gets promoted in the next couple weeks and hits AAA well. If so, I have no problem penciling him in for the majority of 2018. But I wouldn't let that stop the tigers from signing JD and keeping upton. If Stewart forces the issue, Victor is the guy you eliminate. 

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

I don't see any need to give Stewart a spot until he is OPSing 900 in aaa. 

And if a spot needs to be opened up at some point next season, Victor can be given his walking papers. 

Hahah, that seems arbitrary. His OPS is .879 and his wOBA is .383 at AA. I know some scouts might not be sold on how that translates to MLB, but I think his results at the plate are sufficient to where he's not going to Jacoby it in Detroit.

There's obviously no need to rush him of course. I imagine they'd go with guys like Presley and Adduci first.

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Either way, there is no downside to waiting until he does it. Maybe he gets promoted in the next couple weeks and hits AAA well. If so, I have no problem penciling him in for the majority of 2018. But I wouldn't let that stop the tigers from signing JD and keeping upton. If Stewart forces the issue, Victor is the guy you eliminate. 

I want Stewart up as soon as his Super 2 arb rights has completed.  2nd week of June next year or so.  That's what most teams do.

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1 minute ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Hahah, that seems arbitrary. His OPS is .879 and his wOBA is .383 at AA. I know some scouts might not be sold on how that translates to MLB, but I think his results at the plate are sufficient to where he's not going to Jacoby it in Detroit.

There's obviously no need to rush him of course. I imagine they'd go with guys like Presley and Adduci first.

Of course it's arbitrary! I think you get my point though. Stewart is going to need to hit well in MLB to have value. I want him as fully baked as possible before slotting him into the major league team. 

He wont JaCoby it at the plate. But he will Delmon it in the field. 

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Just now, cruzer1 said:

I want Stewart up as soon as his Super 2 arb rights has completed.  2nd week of June next year or so.  That's what most teams do.

Perfect. I'm on board. That should be right about the time that Victor and his 650 ops can be sent packing. 

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Machado

castellanos

Upton

cabrera

JD

stewart

mccann/hicks

jacoby/mahtook

iglesias

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Fulmer/Norris/Faedo/Burrows/Funkhouser/Boyd/Manning

Jimenez/LaBork/Garcia/Houston/Ecker/E.Jimenez/Castro/Baez/Foley/Hall/Turnbull/Moreno

Hicks/Miggy/Machado/Gerber/Jones/Upton/Stewart/Hill

I wonder how many of these guys will be contributing in 2020.

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Trade Fulmer.  Load the wagon.  They could get more than Chicago got for Sale, if the right team is interested.

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The above is if we can manage to trade Kinsler. Alternatively, keep Kinsler and trade Iglesias. 

Get better health luck with Cabrera. Get bounce back seasons from Norris and Boyd and verlander. Profit. 

Then in 2019 the prospects we got for JD and JW and Avila are ready to step in to a middle infield and/or CF spot. 

It is known. 

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4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Of course it's arbitrary! I think you get my point though. Stewart is going to need to hit well in MLB to have value. I want him as fully baked as possible before slotting him into the major league team. 

He wont JaCoby it at the plate. But he will Delmon it in the field. 

Ha, I took it as you thought he needed to improve a lot or was fluking his way through Erie.

I agree with you guys, there's not much reason to not wait until June of next year.

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2 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Trade Fulmer.  Load the wagon.  They could get more than Chicago got for Sale, if the right team is interested.

Disagree that they would get more than sale brought back. 

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3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Disagree that they would get more than sale brought back. 

Can I dream of a Yankee trade?  I'll take Frazier, Mateo, Chance Adams, Fowler, Andujar and Acevedo or Abreu.  That is pretty well stacked.  I'd throw in JD.

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2 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Trade Fulmer.  Load the wagon.  They could get more than Chicago got for Sale, if the right team is interested.

Yes, they would have to get what CWS got for Sale to tempt me. But I don't see the Dodgers or Houston or the Yankees doing it given how they've built themselves. Red Sox and Nats are probably out of that level of prospects, and I'm not sure if anyone else would want to drain their systems or would have enough in their system.

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1 minute ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Ha, I took it as you thought he needed to improve a lot or was fluking his way through Erie.

I agree with you guys, there's not much reason to not wait until June of next year.

No I think the Erie numbers are legit. So just do it at AAA, too. AA isn't *that* different than AA. But the same can be said for AAA to MLB. If he is a good hitter, he should have no problem succeeding in AAA just like he is in AA. I just want to see it happen. 

And who knows. Maybe he destroys AAA at the same rate he is hitting in AA. In that case, hand him a spot in MLB in the third week of April. 

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Knebel - obviously a prospect for veteran trade that we'd like to have back at this point.

Suarez - a bad trade that nobody ever liked.

Travis - a bad trade but Travis has to be able to stay healthy for most of a season in order to have any real value.

Perez - I'd like to have him back but he was blocked as much by our young players (Nick and Iggy) as he was by any veteran (Ian).  And though Perez is a decent looking player, to say that we should have kept him over Ian is kinda crazy, even if we were in a rebuilding mode.  He just wasn't ever that much of a prospect, and isn't that impressive now.

Garcia - we traded him for a young prospect (Iggy).  It doesn't look like a good trade now, but it wasn't the result of some "win now" strategy.  Up until this year Garcia looked like a toolsy POS player who couldn't hit for average or for power or field the ball...but other than that he was awesome.

The Knebel and Suarez trades sucked.

I'd be inclined at this point given where we are at this moment to take the other moves back.  

However, the Travis/Perez/Garcia moves had nothing to do with "winning now" or trading youngsters for veterans or some other short-sighted meme.

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I'm intrigued by Gose being a loogy/backup cf/pinch runner off the bench in the future.  

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2 minutes ago, Shelton said:

No I think the Erie numbers are legit. So just do it at AAA, too. AA isn't *that* different than AA. But the same can be said for AAA to MLB. If he is a good hitter, he should have no problem succeeding in AAA just like he is in AA. I just want to see it happen. 

And who knows. Maybe he destroys AAA at the same rate he is hitting in AA. In that case, hand him a spot in MLB in the third week of April. 

It seems like they're pretty happy with how he's performed at Erie, so I think they might reward him with a promotion to AAA at some point. It's not a huge difference tho.

But AAA is filled with vets who typically would stay at AAA, so maybe not. Adduci/Presley, Den Deker, Collins, with Jones as well, so they might just let him ripen at AA for another couple months. If he starts really owning AA-ball, they could easily make room.

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1 minute ago, sabretooth said:

Knebel - obviously a prospect for veteran trade that we'd like to have back at this point.

Suarez - a bad trade that nobody ever liked.

Travis - a bad trade but Travis has to be able to stay healthy for most of a season in order to have any real value.

Perez - I'd like to have him back but he was blocked as much by our young players (Nick and Iggy) as he was by any veteran (Ian).  And though Perez is a decent looking player, to say that we should have kept him over Ian is kinda crazy, even if we were in a rebuilding mode.  He just wasn't ever that much of a prospect, and isn't that impressive now.

Garcia - we traded him for a young prospect (Iggy).  It doesn't look like a good trade now, but it wasn't the result of some "win now" strategy.  Up until this year Garcia looked like a toolsy POS player who couldn't hit for average or for power or field the ball...but other than that he was awesome.

The Knebel and Suarez trades sucked.

I'd be inclined at this point given where we are at this moment to take the other moves back.  

However, the Travis/Perez/Garcia moves had nothing to do with "winning now" or trading youngsters for veterans or some other short-sighted meme.

You can pee back this onion a lot ways. I'm not saying I would rather have Perez than Kinsler. It's just an example of where having a vet forced a prospect to be disposed of. 

If we don't sign prince, nick is still a 3b all along. Garcia is not deemed expendable. If peralta isn't suspended, DD doesn't flip Garcia for iglesias. Even if the suspension happens, Suarez could have stepped in. 

Anyway, I was only giving examples of where signing a FA or having a vet that you hold on to can result in prospects ending up elsewhere.

the stuff adds up. 

At this point, we don't even have guys on the level of the guys mentioned.

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39 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Amen.  That would have been a nice core right now.  Only Thompson has flamed out, it appears.

Cmon, there's no way you are going to build a "core" out of those guys.  There's some talent there but Knebel's the only one who appears to be plus-plus level talent.  The rest of them are complimentary players at this point, **maybe** one becomes a star for a year or two.

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