roarintiger1

2017 Trade Deadline Thread

2,294 posts in this topic

45 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

How do you know what kind of return Avila is asking for?  How do you know a reasonable offer was made?  A lot of teams probably don't want to pick up that contract.  It is not a bad one, but he is expensive.  

Because its been reported a million times since last off season what his price is and it's an unreasonable amount.

Hou isnt going to offer garbage for JV, but Avila isnt going to take anything other than a package that no team would even consider giving for JV.  Hence the impasse.  Maybe he can come to his senses, but given the moves he has made since becoming GM, its unlikely.

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I doubt JV gets moved, and no way should AA move him without getting at least one very prospect+ return (with however salary is figured out) - but I do think there may be more than just the Stros looking at this. When contending teams get closer to a deadline they look at many things. For some reason I think there may be a dark horse team or two involved, for example the ST L. Cardinals. They have prospects and if  they really do feel they have a chance to win the Central, they may make an offer as well.

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17 minutes ago, MDMAzing said:

Because its been reported a million times since last off season what his price is and it's an unreasonable amount.

 

Can you give me a quote from Avila where he says what he is asking for in return?  

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9 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Can you give me a quote from Avila where he says what he is asking for in return?  

So all of the inside guys are lying and all of the teams that said the asking price is too high are lying as well?  ok...

Also, the fact that JV is still here should be enough to tell you the asking price is too high.

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No, it might be evidence that no one has offered reasonable value.  I wouldn't know though, because I haven't been in on any of the phone calls.

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18 minutes ago, MDMAzing said:

So all of the inside guys are lying and all of the teams that said the asking price is too high are lying as well?  ok...

Also, the fact that JV is still here should be enough to tell you the asking price is too high.

What inside guys? Tony Paul and Jon Heyman?  

He is probably still with Detroit because nobody made a reasonable offer.  

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3 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

What inside guys? Tony Paul and Jon Heyman?  

He is probably still with Detroit because nobody made a reasonable offer.  

Guys like Olney, Morosi, Rosenthal etc.  Its all been out there since last December, feel free to look, its not that hard to find.

But If you think its all bull****, be my guest.

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13 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

What inside guys? Tony Paul and Jon Heyman?  

He is probably still with Detroit because nobody made a reasonable offer.  

I would guess the offers completely dried up with JV's slow start. Teams that may have wanted him were saying he washed up/Al is asking for too much. And the franchise would have been stupid to sell low, stupid to conclude that he's done after a dozen or so starts.

Now that he's been pitching like an ace the past 5 starts, Houston is more interested, especially since they've been in a funk after doing jack at the deadline. And they're the only team really, unless WAS goes crazy all-in.

But Houston is notoriously cheap and therefore loves its prospects, so we'll see. There'll always be more teams in the off-season.

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7 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I would guess the offers completely dried up with JV's slow start. Teams that may have wanted him were saying he washed up/Al is asking for too much. And the franchise would have been stupid to sell low, stupid to conclude that he's done after a dozen or so starts.

Now that he's been pitching like an ace the past 5 starts, Houston is more interested, especially since they've been in a funk after doing jack at the deadline. And they're the only team really, unless WAS goes crazy all-in.

But Houston is notoriously cheap and therefore loves its prospects, so we'll see. There'll always be more teams in the off-season.

It's hard to say what the demands were or what the offers were. However, I would expect in the offseason that the price was high, given that there was a path to a competitive team. 

The price is probably lower now. 

As for the media reports, it's hard to know how seriously to take them. Most of the national media is under the impression that Avila needs to cut payroll or save money. I'm sure there are some teams that think that, too. But he hasn't done anything to support that suspicion yet. 

I think a lot of the reports that come out are driven by teams that are interested in Verlander. It doesn't hurt those teams to paint detroit as being unreasonable in its demands. 

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Just now, Shelton said:

It's hard to say what the demands were or what the offers were. However, I would expect in the offseason that the price was high, given that there was a path to a competitive team. 

The price is probably lower now. 

As for the media reports, it's hard to know how seriously to take them. Most of the national media is under the impression that Avila needs to cut payroll or save money. I'm sure there are some teams that think that, too. But he hasn't done anything to support that suspicion yet. 

I think a lot of the reports that come out are driven by teams that are interested in Verlander. It doesn't hurt those teams to paint detroit as being unreasonable in its demands. 

Yeah, I think the Tigers' demand was high in the off-season, as I'm sure was for Ian and JD. Maybe if they had gotten a great offer for 1 of them they might have taken less for the others and started the re-build a year early. JV was basically the CY winner, so of course it should have been high. Hard to say if it was too high or not back then without knowing the offers.

I agree with you, when he had an ERA above 4.50, other teams could point at that and say Detroit was demanding too much. I think that was a GM or two trying to get AA to give him away, and/or cover for not wanting to spend $$$.

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8 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Yeah, I think the Tigers' demand was high in the off-season, as I'm sure was for Ian and JD. Maybe if they had gotten a great offer for 1 of them they might have taken less for the others and started the re-build a year early. JV was basically the CY winner, so of course it should have been high. Hard to say if it was too high or not back then without knowing the offers.

I agree with you, when he had an ERA above 4.50, other teams could point at that and say Detroit was demanding too much. I think that was a GM or two trying to get AA to give him away, and/or cover for not wanting to spend $$$.

AA obviously wasn't ready to pull the trigger on a rebuild this past off season, and trading your #1 starter for a bag of prospects is what a rebuilding team does. Short of a rash of Nov-Mar injuries, not much was going to change that.

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11 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

That's not enough (and some of the shine has come off Daz since his draft day)

We can make Daz great again

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Quote

Plenty of time remains for each prong to resolve itself and a trade to materialize, major league sources familiar with the situation told Yahoo Sports, though the latter two depend almost directly on the first. In an era when on-the-fly rebuilds are passé, full tear-downs preferred and a compelling case exists for Detroit to blow up its core, competing executives and those with whom the Tigers have spoken about trades said they can’t figure out Detroit’s plan.

Perhaps, opposing executives muse, it is strategy to hold onto Verlander and second baseman Ian Kinsler into the winter and re-assess after outfielder Justin Upton makes a decision whether to opt out of the final four years and $88 million of his deal – a choice looking likelier by the day. Without Upton, the Tigers’ payroll could dip under $150 million after starting this season at $199.8 million, and shedding the remaining two years and $56 million on Verlander’s deal would go a long way to the austerity late owner Mike Ilitch never considered.

This article contradicts itself about 4 times

Passan

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4 hours ago, kdog said:

This article contradicts itself about 4 times

Passan

I don't know if the Tigers methods are going to work, but I'm very glad they don't seem to meet with the expectations of the sports media herd, for then I would be nearly certain that they had almost no chance at all to succeed.

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1 hour ago, kdog said:

This article contradicts itself about 4 times

Passan

I thought the same thing. 

That said, for a while I have felt that Upton's decision could be a factor in how AA approaches the offseason... If they are on the hook for him, maybe they keep the band together, hope for a couple of bounce-backs on the SP staff, Miggy getting healthy and another down year in the AL...

But I think Upton has reached a point -- assuming he finishes these last six weeks pretty strong -- where even if he does not opt out, he could be tradable... Maybe the Tigers would have to eat a few bucks, but could dump 80 percent or so of that deal and get a prospect or two in return.  

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Jeff Passan: Just spoke with Al Avila, who said that the team never tried to pair Zimmerman with Verlander in trade talks.

 

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44 minutes ago, kdog said:

Jeff Passan: Just spoke with Al Avila, who said that the team never tried to pair Zimmerman with Verlander in trade talks.

 

Did Passan mistype here? Did he mean pair Fulmer with Zimmermann? Who would have ever suggested pairing Zimmermann with Verlander?

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Did Passan mistype here? Did he mean pair Fulmer with Zimmermann? Who would have ever suggested pairing Zimmermann with Verlander?

He mentioned it in his column about the stalled Verlander market. It explicitly said pairing JV/Zimm.

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1 hour ago, kdog said:

He mentioned it in his column about the stalled Verlander market. It explicitly said pairing JV/Zimm.

Yeah, that was a moment in the column where I thought... Passan is totally off OR AA really does not want to trade JV.

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