roarintiger1

2017 Trade Deadline Thread

2,294 posts in this topic

34 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

somebody calls about Fulmer, the best thing that happens is the conversation turns into a deal for someone else. So I guess if I'm Avila, I'm not going to say anyone is untouchable because sure, you want that guy to call anyway. But it just goes to the truth that you generally don't want to put all your cards on the table before you start a negotiation. Al doesn't need anyone to tell anyone what the bottom line of his untouchable list is.

Of course MTS doesn't operate under those constraints!

This is how I would look at it. You never know where a conversation might lead. Even if nothing comes of that specific conversation and a deal isn't reached at that time, it allows you to get a sense of where the other guy is at for future negotiations down the road into the off-season. Because of injury, performance (under or over), development surprises/disappointments a team is a fluid thing. Needs change frequently, strengths change. A guy might not be willing to deal a specific player today, doesn't mean he won't trade him at the winter meetings depending on a multitude of factors transpiring between now and then.

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More untouchable: Fulmer or Norris? I would say Norris.

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2 minutes ago, kdog said:

More untouchable: Fulmer or Norris? I would say Norris.

Time will tell. Flip a coin. Things to like in both guys. With Fulmer is his raw strength and endurance, and his apparent ability to command new pitches. If he can add a curve with the same apparent ease he added his change he's really goes to the upper top level. Norris reminds be a bit of Scherzer. At this point there are questions about is his strength, mechanics, but you know there is top level swing and miss in the arm. If it all settles down for Daniel like it did for Max, again a really top level guy. But so far Fulmer has proved he can get closer to his ceiling.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

???

If someone sent you a godfather offer for either guy, who would you keep? 

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Fulmer, and not think twice.

Same here.  Fulmer is already very good.  Why would anyone prefer Norris?  

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I would keep Norris because I imagine Fulmer's trade value is immeasurably higher. Better to trade Fulmer for a bunch of good prospects than Norris for Neifi Perez and the spooky ghost of The Freshest Man on Earth Arlie Latham

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That is different than saying Norris is more untouchable, though.

That written, Arlie would play 3rd, thus moving Castellanos off the hot corner, so not all bad, that offer.

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38 minutes ago, kdog said:

If someone sent you a godfather offer for either guy, who would you keep? 

Out of curiosity, why would you prefer to keep Norris?

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Fangraphs has its trade value rankings coming out this week. That could be a fun exercise to do just for the Tigers. 

Fulmer would probably be #1 for me on that list. After that it gets tricky. Norris is probably 2. Manning faedo and burrows could be 3-5. 

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10 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Fangraphs has its trade value rankings coming out this week. That could be a fun exercise to do just for the Tigers. 

Fulmer would probably be #1 for me on that list. After that it gets tricky. Norris is probably 2. Manning faedo and burrows could be 3-5. 

That listing (all pitchers) says everything you need to know about why a total re-build is going to difficult.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

That listing (all pitchers) says everything you need to know about why a total re-build is going to difficult.  

Henning fetishizes the tear down. It's just a profit center for the owner while they 'develop young guys.'

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20 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

That listing (all pitchers) says everything you need to know about why a total re-build is going to difficult.  

Yeah. More than anything I think it indicates how much they need to be focused on getting some good position players into the system. 

If forced to rank position players only, I would probably go something like this:

castellanos

JD

Avila

upton

Stewart

Cabrera

Machado

Kinsler

Gerber

Iglesias

Mahtook

jacoby

mccann

romine

every other player

victor

 

 

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

Out of curiosity, why would you prefer to keep Norris?

Strictly that he misses more bats and is a lefty. Higher ceiling IMO.

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6 minutes ago, kdog said:

Strictly that he misses more bats and is a lefty. Higher ceiling IMO.

I worry about health more in guys that throw a lot of sliders - plus slider pitchers generally are less effective against the opposite side. Now Fulmer has actually cut down on his slider use this season from last (25%->20%) and Norris' use of the slider is up (15%->22%) so now that I've looked that up that is something I had on Norris' side of the ledger that is now a wash. I guess this season Fulmer main pattern is up vs down with the 4 seamer vs the sinker. That should be as low stress an approach as any.

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I wont' deny that Fulmer's sudden shoulder injury was part of my thinking. Certainly Norris has a long way to go.

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I think a tear down has the appeal, because you think "it will be fun seeing young prospects develop" but the reality is that most of those prospects are going to be McCann, Castellanos, and Boyd type players where they're just usually not fun to watch. You don't get a team of 20 year old Miguel Cabreras. 

That's not to say rebuilds aren't necessary at times, but whenever I read a journalist write an article that makes them sound fun, that's all I can think of

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6 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

but the reality is that most of those prospects are going to be McCann, Castellanos, and Boyd type players

Not only that...three of those prospects ARE McCann, Castellanos, and Boyd.

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4 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

I think a tear down has the appeal, because you think "it will be fun seeing young prospects develop" but the reality is that most of those prospects are going to be McCann, Castellanos, and Boyd type players where they're just usually not fun to watch. You don't get a team of 20 year old Miguel Cabreras. 

That's not to say rebuilds aren't necessary at times, but whenever I read a journalist write an article that makes them sound fun, that's all I can think of

This is so true.  Remember when Eric Munson was going to revitalize the franchise? 

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15 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

This is so true.  Remember when Eric Munson was going to revitalize the franchise? 

Have no fear, a Gibby nears:

 

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2 hours ago, kdog said:

Henning fetishizes the tear down. It's just a profit center for the owner while they 'develop young guys.'

In my estimation, ticket prices have approximately tripled since 2006.  For that reason alone, I believe that a tear down would result in a very significant decrease in attendance and revenue. 

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2 minutes ago, diaspora04 said:

In my estimation, ticket prices have approximately tripled since 2006.  For that reason alone, I believe that a tear down would result in a very significant decrease in attendance and revenue. 

And their local tv deal is coming up within a few years. 

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