Jump to content

roarintiger1

2017 Trade Deadline Thread

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

Verlander will still have value next year, maybe more if he is pitching well. If they can get stud prospects for him, then by all means do it now.  That goes for anyone.  I suspect they aren't going to get the kind of returns you are hoping for though.  

At some point they got to **** or get off the pot. This whole waiting till his value is high, retool on the fly stuff will just get you stuck in the mud. I think the returns are better than you might thing. And even if they aren't perfect they need to probably still make the deal because the current group isn't winning the World Series which is the goal. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

At some point they got to **** or get off the pot. This whole waiting till his value is high, retool on the fly stuff will just get you stuck in the mud. I think the returns are better than you might thing. And even if they aren't perfect they need to probably still make the deal because the current group isn't winning the World Series which is the goal. 

And trading everyone now for anything you can get will get them buried in the mud. If they can get a top prospect for Verlander, then trade him  If they can't get good returns, I would rather they keep good players.  .    

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, tiger337 said:

And trading everyone now for anything you can get will get them buried in the mud. If they can get a top prospect for Verlander, then trade him  If they can't get good returns, I would rather they keep good players.  .    

Yeah, dumping him now for a meh return would be a pure salary dump, and not a baseball move. Since it would almost assuredly mean a rebuild, that money would likely not be spent anywhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we hang on to a couple of guys like Kinsler, Upton and JV but trade or lose JD, Justin Wilson and Avila, where does that leave us next off season? With a worse team than we have now.

You don't move prospects to prop up a team like we'll have and if i'm ownership I'm not investing much money either when our payroll will still be north of 150M i think. Nobody is suggesting giving guys away but trying to rebuild on the fly is a very low percentage gamble.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Yeah, dumping him now for a meh return would be a pure salary dump, and not a baseball move. Since it would almost assuredly mean a rebuild, that money would likely not be spent anywhere else.

If your current payroll is restricting you from investing in the international markets than a payroll dump can be a baseball move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

If your current payroll is restricting you from investing in the international markets than a payroll dump can be a baseball move.

The international markets have a hard cap now, unless you're a veteran. So this is no longer an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

If we hang on to a couple of guys like Kinsler, Upton and JV but trade or lose JD, Justin Wilson and Avila, where does that leave us next off season? With a worse team than we have now.

You don't move prospects to prop up a team like we'll have and if i'm ownership I'm not investing much money either when our payroll will still be north of 150M i think. Nobody is suggesting giving guys away but trying to rebuild on the fly is a very low percentage gamble.

 

2018 is pretty much toast either way. Really, unless you're a cheap owner/franchise, it doesn't matter when you deal a player, your goal is to get the top return possible.

Ideally, you throw in some future payments to offset salary and increase the prospect return. Depending on who you are dealing with of course. But that's a way the Tigers could use their wealth to their advantage in a rebuild.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

New CBA, rules went into effect on July 2. The cap is now a hard cap.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/new-mlb-international-signing-rules/

These rules only apply to countries that MLB has agreements with and just altered existing rules.

Cuba and Japan are not covered here I am pretty sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Stanley68 said:

These rules only apply to countries that MLB has agreements with and just altered existing rules.

Cuba and Japan are not covered here I am pretty sure

Quote

The rules also raise the signing age for players to be exempt from the bonus pools. The rules had been that international players were exempt from the bonus pools if they were at least 23 with five or more seasons of experience in a foreign professional league, like Serie Nacional in Cuba. Now players must be at least 25 with six seasons in a foreign professional league to be exempt. While those rules most commonly come in to play for Cuban players, the rules encompass all international players, including foreign professionals in Japan and Korea.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stanley68 said:

These rules only apply to countries that MLB has agreements with and just altered existing rules.

Cuba and Japan are not covered here I am pretty sure

Quote

The rules also raise the signing age for players to be exempt from the bonus pools. The rules had been that international players were exempt from the bonus pools if they were at least 23 with five or more seasons of experience in a foreign professional league, like Serie Nacional in Cuba. Now players must be at least 25 with six seasons in a foreign professional league to be exempt. While those rules most commonly come in to play for Cuban players, the rules encompass all international players, including foreign professionals in Japan and Korea.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

I guess i don't understand the rules then. How did the White Sox just sign Robert for 30M?

Old rules. They signed him a few months ago under them--you could go over the cap and pay a tax. The new rules started with the new signing period, and they have a hard cap. The new rules started 6 days ago (when the 2017-18 intl signing period started).

tbf i wasn't completely sure til you made me look it up :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boston is close to adding a starting pitcher

We’re not looking for starting pitching at this point. I’ll stop at that.” -- DD

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

And trading everyone now for anything you can get will get them buried in the mud. If they can get a top prospect for Verlander, then trade him  If they can't get good returns, I would rather they keep good players.  .    

I didn't say meh return. But if you are getting two Bs instead of one A, you might have to do it. Keeping him isn't going to help you win a world series in 2018 or 19.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

In a different time, Yellich would be fine to want. The goal now has to be to tear it down and get better for a couple years. It's been a nice 10 year run. We can have a couple bad years, it will be OK. The goal would be to trade for prospects/draft/develop four Yellichs instead of trading what we do have for one. 

Yes, it very well could be a couple of down years. I'll still be watching though. I have to have something to complain about. 😀

It sure would have been nice to win one World Series title between 2006 and 2015 though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I didn't say meh return. But if you are getting two Bs instead of one A, you might have to do it. Keeping him isn't going to help you win a world series in 2018 or 19.

I think keeping him gives them a better chance on winning in 2018-2019 than two Bs will have of helping them win in 2020 plus.  That is not to say that I expect them to win in 18-19, just that two B's will likely have minimal impact in any season.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stanley68 said:

If we hang on to a couple of guys like Kinsler, Upton and JV but trade or lose JD, Justin Wilson and Avila, where does that leave us next off season? With a worse team than we have now.

You don't move prospects to prop up a team like we'll have and if i'm ownership I'm not investing much money either when our payroll will still be north of 150M i think. Nobody is suggesting giving guys away but trying to rebuild on the fly is a very low percentage gamble.

 

Any personnel we lost would, in theory, bring back players from the same (or needed) positions.

Moving prospects is exactly what we've been doing for the last 10 to 15 years. All to get that elusive championship.

And rebuilding on the fly is also exactly what we've been doing, for many years. Look back at our rosters since 2006. We have huge turnover every season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yes, it very well could be a couple of down years. I'll still be watching though. I have to have something to complain about. 😀

It sure would have been nice to win one World Series title between 2006 and 2015 though.

At least we ain't in he Randy Smith era.  Talk about a time frame of constant suck with no hope whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I think keeping him gives them a better chance on winning in 2018-2019 than two Bs will have of helping them win in 2020 plus.  That is not to say that I expect them to win in 18-19, just that two B's will likely have minimal impact in any season.  

That's awfully pessimistic. B prospects have a minimal impact? (and FYI I consider B guys back end 100 guys). Come on. Some of the B prospects do turn into pretty good players. It has happened before, it will happen agian. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

That's awfully pessimistic. B prospects have a minimal impact? (and FYI I consider B guys back end 100 guys). Come on. Some of the B prospects do turn into pretty good players. It has happened before, it will happen agian. 

Well if we're talking 2 guys like Burrows and Manning, that'd be great. If we're talking like Joe Jimenez and Michael Gerber, easy pass. That's who I think of with B prospects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×