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Norris = Bonderman?

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I don't think it's a good comparo....

Bonderman had dominating stuff, a good FB and a really good slider.

Norris has a terrible fastball and some decent off-speed pitches.

Norris reminds me of Mike Maroth, frankly.

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1 minute ago, sabretooth said:

I don't think it's a good comparo....

Bonderman had dominating stuff, a good FB and a really good slider.

Norris has a terrible fastball and some decent off-speed pitches.

Norris reminds me of Mike Maroth, frankly.

you're going to have to explain this further. 

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I still think Norris needs to focus on a 2-seam/sinker and work in the 4-seamer in spots for a change of pace.

I would send him down for a while and have him retool his repertoire.

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5 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

you're going to have to explain this further. 

I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek....obviously Maroth was a junk-baller and Norris has way more velocity and better stuff and a much higher upside.  But Norris this year has had results like Maroth.

But Norris needs to improve his mechanics and control and develop a much better fastball, particularly one that has some down-and-in action against RH.

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Actually the guy that Norris should probably emulate developmentally speaking is Robbie Ray.  A couple of years ago, Ray was somewhat similar to Norris....not enough missed bats, too many walks, mediocre fastball, mixed results on the off-speed stuff.

Then Ray developed his fastball, the changeup followed, and the rest is coming along well enough.

Norris has the velocity (like Ray), and the changeup (plus a curveball).....either Norris has to get the fastball figured out or else develop a reliable groundball pitch for RH hitters.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What do the Tigers need to do to come up with a guy like Ray?

Patience.  

Do they still have the receipt?

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6 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What do the Tigers need to do to come up with a guy like Ray?

1. steal Ray's DNA

2. splice his genetic material together with Norris's

3. inject it into a pig

4. see if the pig can throw a better four-seamer

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Yeesh. First we are looking at trading verlander, and now we are going to be forced to slaughter our Norris-Ray hybrid pig? This is just so depressing. 

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Bonderman was hands down a better pitcher. Norris isn't in the same league as Jeremy, even though bonderman wasn't a front of the rotation guy for any length of time.

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On 7/6/2017 at 0:54 PM, ballmich said:

Bonderman developed into a successful SP until the injury, so I can't say Norris is anything like that. At least not yet. 

I'd sooner equate Norris to Randy O'Neal, or Steve Searcy.  But hopefully there is still a chance that he turns out better than these guys. 

Pat Underwood.  

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Bonderman is one of the great what ifs in Tigers history.  He was developing into an ace right before he got hurt, if it wasn't for that injury and botched surgery he very well may have be regarded by fans like Verlander is today. 

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10 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Bonderman is one of the great what ifs in Tigers history.  He was developing into an ace right before he got hurt, if it wasn't for that injury and botched surgery he very well may have be regarded by fans like Verlander is today. 

That slider was a thing of beauty. I don't know if the change-up was ever going to come along, but it would have been great to see it happen. 

Personally, I think they should have seen the change up struggles and punted on it and just made him a closer. Yeah, he had the first inning mental block but I think that Bonderman ramping it up for one inning could have been a beautiful thing and it may have solved the Tiger closer conundrum for 10+ years. 

 

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5 hours ago, Walewander said:

That slider was a thing of beauty. I don't know if the change-up was ever going to come along, but it would have been great to see it happen. 

Personally, I think they should have seen the change up struggles and punted on it and just made him a closer. Yeah, he had the first inning mental block but I think that Bonderman ramping it up for one inning could have been a beautiful thing and it may have solved the Tiger closer conundrum for 10+ years. 

 

I believe that the 1st inning was a mental thing is a false narrative that has become part of Tigers lore. It did get to where he indeed couldn't throw well in the 1st but was because his fingers would be numb and it would take him a awhile to figure out what feel he had - part of the vascular issue that led to the surgery that then failed.

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On 7/6/2017 at 8:46 AM, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Norris take a stint in the bullpen. Nothing necessarily permanent, but I think giving him some short stints where he can go higher intensity with a higher focus would help him.

He has trouble maintaining his mechanics. Sending him to the bullpen would not be how I'd go about fixing that. I think he's just a work in project that will take a little longer than most pitchers. 

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1 hour ago, Yoda said:

He has trouble maintaining his mechanics. Sending him to the bullpen would not be how I'd go about fixing that. I think he's just a work in project that will take a little longer than most pitchers. 

Yeah - he's got to pitch and he needs some freedom to fail. That can be in Detroit if the Tigers are out of it - and probably if Ausmus is gone. Otherwise AAA would be better.

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On 7/6/2017 at 0:42 PM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Who is comparible to Felipe Lira?

omar olivares and matt drews

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On 7/6/2017 at 0:56 PM, Casimir said:

Victor Santos, Seth McClung, Julio Santana, Brian Williams, Frankie Rodriguez, Bob McGraw, Bill Trottier, Jose Silva, Kirk Sarloos, Joe Cascarella,.....  These are just a few of the names that come to mind (and after reading the similarity scores on Lira's bbref page).

One of my favorite things in baseball history was, probably close to a decade ago, MLB.com doing this thing where they asked a bunch of current pitchers who they would select to pitch a game 7 out of anyone in MLB.

It's this big long list of everyone picking Pedro Martinez, Justin Verlander, and whoever else was an ace at the time, maybe Cole Hamels? Anyway, the punch line is they ask Seth McClung and he says "Seth McClung". Remembering this still makes me laugh. 

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Bonderman's head never seemed to be in the game, and probably being called up at 20 messed his training up. Norris... I have a feeling that the Tigers can't, for whatever reason, capitalize on "stuff" pitchers - Norris isn't a Verlander or a Scherzer.

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On 7/6/2017 at 0:54 PM, ballmich said:

Bonderman developed into a successful SP until the injury, so I can't say Norris is anything like that. At least not yet. 

I'd sooner equate Norris to Randy O'Neal, or Steve Searcy.  But hopefully there is still a chance that he turns out better than these guys. 

With all due respect, Norris has displayed more skill than O'Neal or Searcy.  

That said, Norris could be terrific in the BP and it could be just what he needs to get his head on straight.

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6 hours ago, McGriff4Hall said:

Bonderman's head never seemed to be in the game, and probably being called up at 20 messed his training up. Norris... I have a feeling that the Tigers can't, for whatever reason, capitalize on "stuff" pitchers - Norris isn't a Verlander or a Scherzer.

Not sure I agree with any of that.

I suppose I agree Norris isn't a Verlander or a Scherzer.

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