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Casimir

07/03/2017 Day of Mourning

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Fresh off a 1/3 series at home vs Cleveland.  8 games out of 1th place.  Tied for last with the White Sox.  Only one all star on the team.  The pitching staff looks like its from the mid 90s air raid siren teams.  (So, of course, the all star is a pitcher).

Seems like a good day to get liquored up and play with explosives.

 

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2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Goodbye JV.  At least the Dodgers will give you run support.   

I have to admit was I was completely wrong, lured in by the pretty face whose eyes were both the same color. When the choice had to made, I was pretty certain Max was going to be the high maintenance guy both attitude wise and health wise so when it came down to only paying for one, I was fine with it being JV. Just goes to show....

JV is either having physical problems he won't admit to, or he has become a total headcase.  Nothing about his performance this season make any sense. Either way it's gotten to where with each up/down cycle of his I am becoming more willing to see him become someone else's headache.

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4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

aging sucks......

34 isn't really even that old for a top flight pitcher - especially one who has never had an arm surgery.  I didn't expect him to be where he now until  3-4 years from now.

 

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5 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

34 isn't really even that old for a top flight pitcher - especially one who has never had an arm surgery.  I didn't expect him to be where he now until  3-4 years from now.

 

I expect power pitchers to drop off at around mid 30s.   I think we got used to juiced up pitchers taking their power arms later into their careers than they should.    Not throwing his changeup doesn't help, but his fastball has lost a little velocity and he's not pinpointing it   I think it's a combination of aging and not having the right feel right now.   I don't think it's a permanent thing for him but last season might have been his last hurrah as a power pitcher for a whole season.  Whether he wants to or is able to change his approach is up to him.   We'll still see flashes of the old JV, but maybe for another team.    I would guess that like most models Kate Upton might want to pursue acting and didn't they already buy a house in L.A.?

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This is just a down year for Verlander.  He'll be fine as soon as he figures out where his fb command and his ch went.

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1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I expect power pitchers to drop off at around mid 30s.   I think we got used to juiced up pitchers taking their power arms later into their careers than they should.    Not throwing his changeup doesn't help, but his fastball has lost a little velocity and he's not pinpointing it   I think it's a combination of aging and not having the right feel right now.   I don't think it's a permanent thing for him but last season might have been his last hurrah as a power pitcher for a whole season.  Whether he wants to or is able to change his approach is up to him.   We'll still see flashes of the old JV, but maybe for another team.    I would guess that like most models Kate Upton might want to pursue acting and didn't they already buy a house in L.A.?

Not to rehash his history, but whatever is screwing up JV, it's not what I would normally associate with the 'ordinary' age related loss of ability to hurl a hard live fastball, because he can certainly still do that well enough to still be very good - it is indeed for what ever reason, all the other stuff.

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Paul Tony reports that there was an incident at Comerica Park after yesterday's game.  A drunken middle aged man wearing a white tank top and cut off jeans evaded security and stormed into Brad Ausmus's office demanding that Jim Adducci be put back on the Tigers roster.  The man, who identified himself as former Brewer and Cardinal Jim Adducci Sr, said that his son is more than ready to return to the team.  He was overheard screaming that "******* den Decker can not hit the his way out of ******* paper bag"  Ausmus explained to him that his son was in rehab and was being evaluated and told him that he would call security if he did not leave. Adducci Sr responded that there nothing to evaluate and that Ausmus was going to need some rehab on his pretty face if his son was not back on the team for the next series.  When security arrived to drag Adducci Sr away, the man started screaming that McCann sucks too and they needed to start giving his at bats to John Hicks.  When reached for comment by phone in his hotel room, Jim Adducci Jr said: That is just dad being dad" as a woman giggled in the background.  

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4 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Goodbye JV.  At least the Dodgers will give you run support.   

I bet teams are lining up for a very expensive 34 year old having a terrible year. 

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38 minutes ago, Yoda said:

I bet teams are lining up for a very expensive 34 year old having a terrible year. 

It almost looked like he might get himself to where he might generate some trade interest, but not so much now. I hope that we don't look back at the chance to have dealt him in the 2016 season as a generational management error.

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I used to love off days with Babs.  I used to love our long walks on the beach and our discussions of the relative merits of DRS vs. UZR,  how we would celebrate when the Detroit Tigers won the World Series, and how we should name our first child wOBAgone because, like the both of us, he would surely be far above average. Those days seem like a distant and idylic dream now.    This team's ups and downs got to us and made our basic incompatibility and disagreements eventually unresolvable. One day a couple months ago while we were walking on our private beach singing "You say DRS and I say UZR" she stopped right there and said, "Let's call the whole thing off!" I used to love offdays, now I don't.  And the fact that the Tigers suck make it a whole heck of a lot harder too. 

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Verlander has sucked primarily against one team – the Indians. He's started three times against Cleveland and 14 against everyone else. He's allowed 3 earned runs or fewer in 12 of his 17 starts (including once against Cleveland). He blew up three times – twice against Cleveland, once against Houston.

Take out his three Cleveland games (in which he pitched 14.1 innings, allowed 18 earned runs, 24 hits, 5 homers) and his line looks like this:

83 2/3 IP, 78 H, 7 HR allowed, 3.87 ERA, 83 K, 40 BB.

There will be plenty of interest in him, especially among NL teams who need pitching. Of course we have to pay a chunk of his salary, but he is still an upper-tier pitcher.

 

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10 minutes ago, VaBengal said:

Verlander has sucked primarily against one team – the Indians. He's started three times against Cleveland and 14 against everyone else. He's allowed 3 earned runs or fewer in 12 of his 17 starts (including once against Cleveland). He blew up three times – twice against Cleveland, once against Houston.

Take out his three Cleveland games (in which he pitched 14.1 innings, allowed 18 earned runs, 24 hits, 5 homers) and his line looks like this:

83 2/3 IP, 78 H, 7 HR allowed, 3.87 ERA, 83 K, 40 BB.

There will be plenty of interest in him, especially among NL teams who need pitching. Of course we have to pay a chunk of his salary, but he is still an upper-tier pitcher.

 

Even if you Porcello out his blow up games the K/BB ratio is still pretty mundane. Obviously the Ks are still there but the walk rate... good grief. Nearly 4.5/9

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That 40 BB in 83 innings will be enough to scare teams away. They're smart enough to know that the decent ERA is probably unsustainable with that walk rate. 

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There will be interest in Verlander, but I don't think the Tigers will get much for him given his contract and his control problems.  They are probably better off keeping him.

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They are also smart enough to know that he's still JV. He can still bring the velo, the stamina is still there, the desire is still there, he's still a top of the rotation guy. What ails him is in his hard head and a fresh start with a new team and new pitching coach might just be what he needs.  And if you can get this guy AND get the other team to pay part of his salary there will be teams interested.

My personal uninformed, uneducated belief is that JV won't or doesn't listen to advice from this coaching staff and they don't push the issue out of deference to who he is and that moving to a new team where he isn't JV "face of the Tigers, CY Young and MVP winner" but just JV who needs to get his **** together is just what he needs. 

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He's certainly way too high on walks, no question about that. But he also still has the stuff to pitch his way out of the walks, which he has done for years and largely has done in the non-blow-up games this year. That's why I'd say his ERA is relatively accurate. He's coming off a Cy Young-type season and has had 4 bad games this year. Of course he's getting older, but he still looks pretty attractive if I'm a playoff team.

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1 hour ago, rhino said:

My personal uninformed, uneducated belief is that JV won't or doesn't listen to advice from this coaching staff and they don't push the issue out of deference to who he is and that moving to a new team where he isn't JV "face of the Tigers, CY Young and MVP winner" but just JV who needs to get his **** together is just what he needs. 

Over 12 years I really have never been able to come down firmly on either side of the question whether JV is a great guy, or a jerk/headcase with a well polished veneer. Each time I think one is true, something pushes me the other way. It would not be hard to be persuaded that this whole exercise with change in arm angles after his extraordinary success last season was utter foolishness and represents gross lack of responsibility to his team. But then again, we don't know, maybe there has been an arm issue forcing what he is doing, maybe he got the bad advice on what to try from Dubee or the staff in the first place. Too many unknowns to render judgement at a distance. In the end, I guess it really doesn't matter - he's an athlete and he's paid to produce.

All that remains is that whatever the drivers, it's frustrating to watch and seems to be a waste of a physical talent level that appears to still be more intact than the results it's producing.

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

All that remains is that whatever the drivers, it's frustrating to watch and seems to be a waste of a physical talent level that appears to still be more intact than the results it's producing.

Seriously? Verlander has been one of the best and most consistent pitchers of the past 10 years. He should have won the Cy Young Award last year. He has 4 bad games this year and suddenly he's a "waste of a physical talent?"

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yes, his lack of success this season is a waster of his talent. What else can you call it? Whenever an athlete can't harness the abilities he still seems to have - it's a waste of talent.

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52 minutes ago, VaBengal said:

Seriously? Verlander has been one of the best and most consistent pitchers of the past 10 years. He should have won the Cy Young Award last year. He has 4 bad games this year and suddenly he's a "waste of a physical talent?"

G2 claims to love JV, but he's certainly been his most consistent, harshest critic.

As far as "waste of physical talent," if you go by that now there's a lot of pitchers that have more physical talent than JV. ****, Norris probably has more. Weird criticism.

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