Red Wings, Tigers who's rebuild gets done first?

[Brian 13]

Both teams have the same owner & very similar issues.

Bloated payrolls, aging stars/core.

Both have some young talent. But both are facing long rebuilds. So who get;s there first?

[Gehringer_2 2,366]

20 minutes ago, Brian said:

Both teams have the same owner & very similar issues.

Bloated payrolls, aging stars/core.

Both have some young talent. But both are facing long rebuilds. So who get;s there first?

I tend to think the Tigers are closer and have more institutional strength to fall back on. But part of that is that Avila hasn't proved to me he is as useless as Holland.....yet.

[Mr. Bigglesworth 2,970]

Who is this young talent you speak of?

[Sports_Freak 323]

What's the final answer? Whomever wins a championship first? I'm not sure if either of the guys in charge of either team is capable of building a winner.

[tiger337 2,848]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Who is this young talent you speak of?

Michael Fulmer.  

[Sports_Freak 323]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Who is this young talent you speak of?

Anibal Sanchez and Buck Farmer? ?

[Mr. Bigglesworth 2,970]

Just now, Sports_Freak said:

Anibal Sanchez and Buck Farmer? ?

James McCann

[Sports_Freak 323]

Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

James McCann

Ahhhh..Jimmy McCann. A player we can really build around. Of course, he would have to get his BA over .180 first, something Rod is sure he can do. ?

[lordstanley 578]

Tigers are in better position. They still have elite talent to trade, they're in a division in which they're not likely to be outspent anytime soon, Avila recognizes the problem and seems willing to deal. But warning: the Tigers are today where the Wings were 3 years ago IMO. Make some wrong choices the next 6 months and they very well could end up being like the Wings in a few years. 

Here's the same topic discussed on a hockey board

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=2356131

 

[Casimir 1,190]

The Lions.

[cruzer1 175]

The Wings have a head start right now.  I love the path that they are heading toward, although they will need the biggest piece yet, the goaltender.  The Tigers have been drafting well lately, but it will take another couple of years until the players are ready.  They still need to get more athletic, and that won't be easy.  The Lions are in great shape, especially when they get Taylor Decker back.

[Gehringer_2 2,366]

I think the one thing in Hockey that makes it a little harder to see the future but a little easier to get there is that great playmakers really do make everyone on the ice with them better. So you can add hockey players that can elevate other players' games. That synergy can shorten a rebuild.  We've seen the inverse of this in how many players suddenly became more pedestrian as the core of Superstars they started out playing with one by one hung them up or became ineffective themselves. Any similar effect in baseball is a lot smaller. Maybe the biggest effect in baseball would be that good defenders will make pitchers look better, but baseball teams just don't build primarily for defense and since it's a secondary objective most teams just do not get that much better defensively as they rebuild. There is little correlation between good bats and good gloves.

[drownwithyou 184]

52 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

The Wings have a head start right now.  I love the path that they are heading toward, although they will need the biggest piece yet, the goaltender.

Never mind that they don't currently have any prospects that project as a top line center or top pairing defenseman (although at least on defense they have a guy or two who have a tiny, tiny chance at becoming that)...they have to pray that their first round pick this year hits one of those two areas and even then they still have a long way to go since their roster is filled with crappy contracts.

[Kacie 116]

I'd have to say the Tigers.  For one, they've shown they will make trades.  Holland will not.  Secondly, the NHL has a hard cap, MLB has a soft cap with the luxury tax, so if they do get young talent developed, good free agents are more readily available in MLB than they are in the NHL. So you can spend if you so choose.  Holland has absolutely no clue on how to develop young talent.  Their star goalie of the future now has an attitude problem and is unprotected in the expansion draft. The Wings also have the luxury of multiple championships in within the last generation and they will milk the nostalgia thing and the new arena and will feel no pressure to rebuild.   And you can't underestimate that character and leadership the Wings have.  Talent, schmalent.

[cruzer1 175]

4 hours ago, drownwithyou said:

Never mind that they don't currently have any prospects that project as a top line center or top pairing defenseman (although at least on defense they have a guy or two who have a tiny, tiny chance at becoming that)...they have to pray that their first round pick this year hits one of those two areas and even then they still have a long way to go since their roster is filled with crappy contracts.

The Wings have a lot of young speed.  They have some young size too.  I like the young forwards.  Their young d is pretty small but can move the puck.  Hicketts and Saarajavi are the two small d with skating ability.

[cruzer1 175]

Also, I think we have all learned that no matter what the sport, you cannot buy a championship.  You have to do it the right way.

[tiger337 2,848]

5 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Also, I think we have all learned that no matter what the sport, you cannot buy a championship.  You have to do it the right way.

You can buy it the right way.  The Tigers certainly bought a lot of playoff appearances, but lost the post-season crapshoot.  

[cruzer1 175]

21 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

You can buy it the right way.  The Tigers certainly bought a lot of playoff appearances, but lost the post-season crapshoot.  

Depth was always an issue.  The bullpen was always an issue.

[Gehringer_2 2,366]

1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

  Their young d is pretty small but ...

but won't have the reach or strength to be effective against taller forwards. We've seen too much of that movie. Maybe one small D'man you can work in, but not a stable.

[Tenacious D 241]

The Red Wings are in an awful spot.  They really needed a worse season this year than they had.  The salary cap and barren farm system will make it much more difficult to contend anytime soon.  How the mighty have fallen--the rules changed and they haven't kept up.

[John_Brian_K 252]

*whose.

[drownwithyou 184]

12 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

The Wings have a lot of young speed.  They have some young size too.  I like the young forwards.  Their young d is pretty small but can move the puck.  Hicketts and Saarajavi are the two small d with skating ability.

Hronek is the only guy I'm hopeful for as being a potential top pairing guy. Maybe Cholowski develops more away from the NCAA but his freshman year was pretty underwhelming.  Hicketts/Saarajavi are probably too small to be a true top pairing guy, but they could be fun power play/sheltered minutes guys potentially.

[cruzer1 175]

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect-rankings/detroit-red-wings-top-20-prospects/

[lordstanley 578]

30 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect-rankings/detroit-red-wings-top-20-prospects/

That's a pretty depressing list to be honest. #2 and #3 are already on the team and both are about to turn 23. #4 on the list was just left unprotected.  #5 is a shrimp. #8 is crap. Anyways, I think the list is a year out of date because doesn't seem to have 2016 draftees on it.

[drownwithyou 184]

35 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

That's a pretty depressing list to be honest. #2 and #3 are already on the team and both are about to turn 23. #4 on the list was just left unprotected.  #5 is a shrimp. #8 is crap. Anyways, I think the list is a year out of date because doesn't seem to have 2016 draftees on it.

Ya it has to be old, no way someone like Hronek isn't in their top 10 when it features such duds as Coreau at 8... even in the context of it being out of date I think it is a pretty good indicator they lack any sort of potential elite player in their entire prospect pool.  Even a guy like Mantha who has an elite-type release with his shot has other aspects of his game that will probably always hold him back.  I see a lot of complimentary pieces at best.