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59 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How many teams forbid players from playing in the WBC?

If he has had nagging injuries every season since 2012, maybe he is just injury prone and would have been injured at spring training?

I don't care one way or the other for WBC, but it seems presumptuous to me, at least, to presume he would be healthy but for the WBC, and lay the blame on the doorstep of the front office is classic MDMAzing.

Well, considering they forbid Vmart from playing in 2012 and also told Avila they didnt want him to play in 2012, I guess the Tigers do. 

And I dont know if he'd be healthy or not, but he got injured at the WBC, didnt he?

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He would have been killed in a car accident had he stayed with the team at Lakeland.  So it was a good thing he participated in the WBC.

Prove otherwise.

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25 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Why would or should they feel the need to remind him of his salary?

Does this really need to be explained to you?  Figure it out for yourself.

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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The league would not allow teams to tell their players they couldn't go, though clearly teams could use whatever subtle means were at their disposal to persuade them it might be a bad idea to to. The thing is, you have to remember the political situation in Venezuela this time around in particular. All the Venezuelans were probably extra motivated because they wanted to do something for their country. The Tigers were sort of trapped by a confluence of unfavorable factors with this last WBC.

I understand that, but at some point common sense should of been used.  A baseball game wasnt going to help Venezuela as it burned to the ground.  The team should of made an executive decision, but they didnt and now we are watching the result of that.

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Common sense is keeping your stars happy.

Common sense is first determining whether or not playing in the WBC is inherently more dangerous or more likely to lead to injury relative staying in camp (not sure if it is or isn't, but I'm not going to blindly assume it is to make an argument)

Common sense is not lording their salary over a player's head anytime you want to guilt them into doing something you want them to do.

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11 minutes ago, MDMAzing said:

I understand that, but at some point common sense should of been used.  A baseball game wasnt going to help Venezuela as it burned to the ground.  The team should of made an executive decision, but they didnt and now we are watching the result of that.

By this logic, every player should be asked by their team or forced by their team to skip the WBC. Personally, I think WBC is pointless. But the league and players who participate appear to disagree. 

I don't believe the WBC games are more likely to cause an injury. There is little reason to ask a player not to play, unless the player is already injured or recovering from an injury. In the case of recovering, the player can be handled in spring games more delicately than they might be handled in WBC games. 

But if the player is heathy, he's going to be playing in games and taking swings and fielding his position, whether it is a WBC game or a spring game. An injury can happen either way. 

There was no reason to think Cabrera would have been injured by playing in the WBC any more than thinking he would be injured by playing in spring games. 

Should the tigers have asked him to not play in any spring games, too?

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Cabrera has been hurt every year since 2009? During every playoff run he had an oblique, a sport hernia, a broken foot or something else. He didn't play in the WBC most of those years.  

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15 minutes ago, Shelton said:

By this logic, every player should be asked by their team or forced by their team to skip the WBC. Personally, I think WBC is pointless. But the league and players who participate appear to disagree. 

I don't believe the WBC games are more likely to cause an injury. There is little reason to ask a player not to play, unless the player is already injured or recovering from an injury. In the case of recovering, the player can be handled in spring games more delicately than they might be handled in WBC games. 

But if the player is heathy, he's going to be playing in games and taking swings and fielding his position, whether it is a WBC game or a spring game. An injury can happen either way. 

There was no reason to think Cabrera would have been injured by playing in the WBC any more than thinking he would be injured by playing in spring games. 

Should the tigers have asked him to not play in any spring games, too?

WBC is high level competition, spring training is not.  The point of spring training is to slowly prepare the players and their bodies for the regular season.  To jump straight into the WBC playing all game/every game, which is something Cabrera never would of done in early March, is no different than starting regular season without ST.  So its really not that surprising that he got hurt.

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8 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

That ******* World Baseball Classic.    I feel the same way as I do with the NHL and the Olympics in mid season.   Sorry, if I am a team owner I am paying that guy millions - if he's getting hurt, he's getting hurt playing for me.  Want to play for country pride?  Retire, you have plenty already.    

Sending guys out without the seasoning that comes with an entire spring training to play full games only partially into the spring season is a really bad idea. 

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19 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Sending guys out without the seasoning that comes with an entire spring training to play full games only partially into the spring season is a really bad idea. 

I don't know.  They started spring training a bit earlier this year because of the WBC.  And Cabrera isn't the healthiest of specimens, so some of the injury risk issue is a bit of his responsibility.

Also, the WBC is pool play, so teams play 3 games in a 4 or 5 day span?  Is that really taxing on position players that aren't catchers?

Yes, the stakes are higher and there's a bit more a regular season pace in the WBC, but I still think the injury could have just as easily happened in Lakeland as it could have in the WBC.

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1 hour ago, MDMAzing said:

WBC is high level competition, spring training is not.  The point of spring training is to slowly prepare the players and their bodies for the regular season.  To jump straight into the WBC playing all game/every game, which is something Cabrera never would of done in early March, is no different than starting regular season without ST.  So its really not that surprising that he got hurt.

I agree with this.  I do think there is a greater risk of injury in the WBC than a regular spring training game.  

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2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

If a player does a dangerous activity, his contract could be voided. There are stipulations in many ML contracts not allowing skydiving, motorcycle riding or other stupid stunts. <ducks>

I am sure contracts hash this all out.  I would not consider playing the game they are paid to play for a living dangerous, so I doubt that is in there.  I am guessing there are stips in there about playing for other league sin the off season...at least some contracts may have that, but I doubt there are provisions in there about the WBC.

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1 hour ago, kdog said:

Cabrera has been hurt every year since 2009? During every playoff run he had an oblique, a sport hernia, a broken foot or something else. He didn't play in the WBC most of those years.  

The fact that he has been injured every year might be a good reason to keep him out of the WBC, so he won't engage in any high energy play before the season starts.  

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1 hour ago, MDMAzing said:

WBC is high level competition, spring training is not.  The point of spring training is to slowly prepare the players and their bodies for the regular season.  To jump straight into the WBC playing all game/every game, which is something Cabrera never would of done in early March, is no different than starting regular season without ST.  So its really not that surprising that he got hurt.

You think their bodies aren't prepared to play baseball? This isn't the 50s. 

Also, they don't jump straight in. Also, they don't play every day or anything close to that. 

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My opinion on this whole thing is that a player should have the freedom in the off season to do reasonable activities.  I am sure there are provisions about dangerous activities in contracts, but I do not like the idea of telling them what they can and cannot do when not 'working' no matter how much they make.  I would not want my employer telling me what to do when I got home from work.  To me it does not matter that these guys make as much as they do.  They are not robots.  They do have lives outside of 'work'.  

I am sure simply going back to their homes is more dangerous than playing a game...why not tell them they cannot live in that country anymore?  I would imagine statistically it is way more dangerous doing that.

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I doubt returning to one's homeland is inherently more dangerous than playing in a MLB caliber baseball game, though I suppose it depends on the homeland.

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With the political and economic turmoil going on in Venezuela, not to mention kidnapping as business, I see no way Cabrera misses the WBC. Anyone with money or a family member of someone with money is a target. I'm sure Cabrera wouldn't want to give these guys the the impression he didn't love his country. It could lead to all kind of bad things.

This is part of the story of the trainer who won the Kentucky Derby this year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horses/triple/derby/2017/04/29/kentucky-derby-2017-antonio-sano-feature/307506001/

Quote

 

Kidnapping is rampant in Venezuela, a country currently embroiled in political unrest and protests since the election of President Nicolas Maduro in 2013.

In 2009, the year Antonio Sano was kidnapped, leaked government data reported an estimated 16,917 kidnappings in Venezuela, or about 46 per day. While numbers vary depending on the source, Sano estimated there are about 20 kidnappings per day in his native country.

“It’s a business,” said Sano, whose parents and sister still live in Venezuela. “It’s a good deal for the people and the government. ... I cry every day for Venezuela. I cry for my mother and my father. The people in Venezuela on top are no good.”

Sano said he was a target for the kidnappers because of his high profile and the money he had made as a successful trainer. He said he had been kidnapped once before when his car was hijacked and he was forced to drive around to seven ATM machines and withdraw cash. Sano called it a “secuestro expreso,” or express kidnapping, and said it lasted just four hours.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Shelton said:

You think their bodies aren't prepared to play baseball? This isn't the 50s. 

Also, they don't jump straight in. Also, they don't play every day or anything close to that. 

Then what is the point of ST?  I dont think its just there to give Lakeland resident something to do in March. 

WBC started in early March, not long after ST started.

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44 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

The fact that he has been injured every year might be a good reason to keep him out of the WBC, so he won't engage in any high energy play before the season starts.  

exactly.  I'm not sure why people are comparing WBC to ST.

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1 hour ago, MDMAzing said:

Then what is the point of ST?  I dont think its just there to give Lakeland resident something to do in March. 

WBC started in early March, not long after ST started.

I think a good deal of spring training is to get starting pitchers into stamina shape to go 5, 6, 7 innings per game.  A lot of players are in better overall athletic shape these days than they were before heading into camp because of more regimented year round training rather than working at the local car lot to make ends meet in earlier eras.

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5 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How many teams forbid players from playing in the WBC?

If he has had nagging injuries every season since 2012, maybe he is just injury prone and would have been injured at spring training?

I don't care one way or the other for WBC, but it seems presumptuous to me, at least, to presume he would be healthy but for the WBC, and lay the blame on the doorstep of the front office is classic MDMAzing.

I think the risk of injury is higher in a competitive WBC than generic spring training.

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