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Motor City Sonics

The false Red Wings narrative that drives me nuts

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So, as the Stanley Cup was awarded last night the announcer said the Penguins were the first team in the Salary Cap era to win Back To Back Cups.    To me that felt like an absolute slam at the Detroit Red Wings who were the last team to win back to back in 97 & 98.   It's this stupid, senseless narrative that the Red Wing bought their Stanley Cups in 1997 & 1998. 


So lets go over the roster, shall we?      

Doug Brown - claimed off waivers from Pittsburgh
Matthew Dandenault - Wings draft pick 1994, 2nd round
Kris Draper - Purchased from Winnipeg for $1
Anders Eriksson - Wings draft pick 1993, 1st round
Bob Errey - Traded from San Jose for a 5th round pick
Sergei Fedorov - Wings draft pick, 1989, 4th round
Slava Fetisov - Traded from New Jersey for 3rd rounder
Tomas Holmstrom - Wings draft pick, 1994, 10th round
Mike Knuble - Wings draft pick, 1991, 4th round

Joe Kocur - Free Agent signing  (nobody wanted him at the time, it was a low end signing)
Vlady Konstantinov - Wings draft pick, 1989, 11th round
Slava Koslov - Wings draft pick, 1990, 3rd round
Martin Lapointe - Wings draft pick, 1991, 1st round

Igor Larionov - Trade w/San Jose for Ray Sheppard
Nick Lidstrom - Wings Draft Pick, 1989, 3rd round
Kirk Maltby - Trade from Edmonton for Dan McGillis
Darren McCarty - Wings Draft Pick, 1992, 2nd round
Larry Murphy - Traded from Toronto for cash
Chris Osgood - Wings Draft Pick, 1991, 3rd round
Jamie Pushor - Wings Draft Pick, 1991, 2nd round

Bob Rouse - Free Agent singing (wow, a superstar)
Tomas Sandstrom - Traded from Pittsburgh for Greg Johnson 
Brendan Shanahan - Trade w/Hartford for Coffey & Primeau
Tim Taylor - Free Agent signing, didn't even play in the playoffs
Mike Vernon - Trade w/Calgary for Steve Chiasson
Aaaron Ward - Trade w/Winnipeg for Paul Ysebaert 

Steve Yzerman - Wings Draft Pick, 1983, 1st round

 

So, they bought Joe Kocur, Bob Rouse and Tim Taylor. 

GET IT RIGHT !        When you look at that, it shows what a masterful job Jimmy Devellano did.    It was their brilliant draft strategy and scouting in Europe, not free agents.  

Sorry, I just had to vent there.  

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Sidney is the flavor of the day, so they had to build up his accomplishment to make it sound more impressive.

Nothing more than that.

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Last night NBC did a minute promo on the red wings back to back cups in 97 and 98, and mentioned the pens were trying to be 2nd team in the modern era to go back to back. So I am not sure what narrative you're talking about.

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It's also true that the salary cap makes it harder to retain your own star players, and also makes it more difficult to acquire high salary guys in trade. 

It's a fact the pens are the first to do it back to back. 

I don't see mentioning that fact to be a slam at the late 90s wings. 

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50 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Last night NBC did a minute promo on the red wings back to back cups in 97 and 98, and mentioned the pens were trying to be 2nd team in the modern era to go back to back. So I am not sure what narrative you're talking about.

Maybe not from last night specifically, but the narrative is that the Wings bought the cup.  Using the phrase 'in the cap era' really slams it home because it is creating a distinction between the different eras.

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The 1997, 1998 and 2008 teams were remarkable for the amount of home-grown talent on it. 

The 2002 bought a couple of players - Robitaille and Hull - but then again the Hawks bought Hossa.

I'm not convinced it's harder to win multiple Cups in the cap era. As the cap applies to your competitors as well. So in the late '90s and early '00s, the Avs and Stars and Rangers weren't subject to a cap either. In the last 9 years we've had the Pens win 3, the Hawks win 3 and the the Kings win 2.

 

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4 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

Last night NBC did a minute promo on the red wings back to back cups in 97 and 98, and mentioned the pens were trying to be 2nd team in the modern era to go back to back. So I am not sure what narrative you're talking about.

I consider the Isles, Oilers and early '90s Pens to be part of the modern era. I guess 1995 onwards until the 2005 strike could be considered the "dead puck era" by some, but not enough to make it a distinction. I consider the 1967-1968 season to be the start of the NHL's modern era, just as the beginning of the Super Bowl kicked off football's modern era.

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To be fair to Pittsburgh, I think it's also a false narrative to discredit their Cups, like some do, by saying "they're only good because they sucked so they were in position to draft two top talents in Crosby and Malkin". Takes a lot more than two star players to build a Cup team, they didn't suck for that long before their high picks, and many other teams have had high picks but weren't able to convert. And plus, no apologies for being lucky AND good.

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1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

To be fair to Pittsburgh, I think it's also a false narrative to discredit their Cups, like some do, by saying "they're only good because they sucked so they were in position to draft two top talents in Crosby and Malkin". Takes a lot more than two star players to build a Cup team, they didn't suck for that long before their high picks, and many other teams have had high picks but weren't able to convert. And plus, no apologies for being lucky AND good.

I'm trying to remember, but didn't Pittsburgh almost get screwed in the Crosby draft? I seem to recall they were awful prior to drafting him, but that was right when the work stoppage happened. Didn't the draft lottery give everyone equal odds, and coincidentally the pens lucked into the first pick for Crosby?

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13 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I'm trying to remember, but didn't Pittsburgh almost get screwed in the Crosby draft? I seem to recall they were awful prior to drafting him, but that was right when the work stoppage happened. Didn't the draft lottery give everyone equal odds, and coincidentally the pens lucked into the first pick for Crosby?

They were terrible in 2004, got Malkin. Then no season, and the lottery was like this:

Quote

Definitely a **** ton of luck.

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10 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

They were terrible in 2004, got Malkin. Then no season, and the lottery was like this:

Definitely a **** ton of luck.

Yeah, that's right. I remember a friend of mine who is a huge pens fan being frustrated because they missed out on ovechkin due to the lottery (although geno has turned out to be a pretty good player...), and he was further pissed off that they wouldn't get Crosby (but of course they were along the teams with the highest chance).

That lottery did seem kind of fair, though. The worst team in 2004 shouldn't be rewarded with back to back top picks based on one bad season. But you also want to give those bad teams a bit of an advantage in the lottery. 

Had the 2005 season been played, there is a pretty good chance that the pens wouldn't have been one of the worst teams (although they also picked high in 2006, so who knows).

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On 6/12/2017 at 9:14 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

So, as the Stanley Cup was awarded last night the announcer said the Penguins were the first team in the Salary Cap era to win Back To Back Cups.    To me that felt like an absolute slam at the Detroit Red Wings who were the last team to win back to back in 97 & 98.   It's this stupid, senseless narrative that the Red Wing bought their Stanley Cups in 1997 & 1998. 


So lets go over the roster, shall we?      

Doug Brown - claimed off waivers from Pittsburgh
Matthew Dandenault - Wings draft pick 1994, 2nd round
Kris Draper - Purchased from Winnipeg for $1
Anders Eriksson - Wings draft pick 1993, 1st round
Bob Errey - Traded from San Jose for a 5th round pick
Sergei Fedorov - Wings draft pick, 1989, 4th round
Slava Fetisov - Traded from New Jersey for 3rd rounder
Tomas Holmstrom - Wings draft pick, 1994, 10th round
Mike Knuble - Wings draft pick, 1991, 4th round

Joe Kocur - Free Agent signing  (nobody wanted him at the time, it was a low end signing)
Vlady Konstantinov - Wings draft pick, 1989, 11th round
Slava Koslov - Wings draft pick, 1990, 3rd round
Martin Lapointe - Wings draft pick, 1991, 1st round

Igor Larionov - Trade w/San Jose for Ray Sheppard
Nick Lidstrom - Wings Draft Pick, 1989, 3rd round
Kirk Maltby - Trade from Edmonton for Dan McGillis
Darren McCarty - Wings Draft Pick, 1992, 2nd round
Larry Murphy - Traded from Toronto for cash
Chris Osgood - Wings Draft Pick, 1991, 3rd round
Jamie Pushor - Wings Draft Pick, 1991, 2nd round

Bob Rouse - Free Agent singing (wow, a superstar)
Tomas Sandstrom - Traded from Pittsburgh for Greg Johnson 
Brendan Shanahan - Trade w/Hartford for Coffey & Primeau
Tim Taylor - Free Agent signing, didn't even play in the playoffs
Mike Vernon - Trade w/Calgary for Steve Chiasson
Aaaron Ward - Trade w/Winnipeg for Paul Ysebaert 

Steve Yzerman - Wings Draft Pick, 1983, 1st round

 

So, they bought Joe Kocur, Bob Rouse and Tim Taylor. 

GET IT RIGHT !        When you look at that, it shows what a masterful job Jimmy Devellano did.    It was their brilliant draft strategy and scouting in Europe, not free agents.  

Sorry, I just had to vent there.  

You're upset over nothing.  Salary cap era has nothing to do with how the team was built.  Pittsburgh pretty much has all homegrown talent and trade acquisitions.   Same with the Blackhawks.  The difference being you could keep ALL your homegrown talent as the Wings did so long as you were willing to spend whatever it took. You could load up the 3rd and 4th lines with solid guys and have solid 5th and 6th defensemen and not have to shed them to save cap space. Mike Ilitch was willing to spend what it took.  Many other owners weren't.  It made the difference.

What I think is most notable about the Pens is that they fired two coaches and a GM after winning the Cup in 2009.  They even quickly fired one coach after seeing it wasn't a fit.  Nope, not the Wings.  Kenny won a Cup so he has a lifetime job and we'll be stuck with Blashill because it's somehow not his fault everyone on the team is regressing.  I hate to be a bandwagon fan, but the interest in this team is at an all time low.  They think the new arena will stir up interest.  It won't for the actual fans.  

Sad that this is what it has come to.  Worrying about how our formerly winning team is perceived 20 years later.  

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To be fair, there has been a subgroup of Red Wings who have worried about how the Wings legacy is perceived for quite some time now.

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In the case of Pittsburgh, they only won the Cup in 2009 because Colin Campbell turned a blind eye to Egveni Malkin violating the Instigator Rule. If Malkin were suspended after gooning it up at the end of Game 2, as he should have been, Wings win that series hands down. #SourGrapes

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11 hours ago, Kacie said:

What I think is most notable about the Pens is that they fired two coaches and a GM after winning the Cup in 2009.  They even quickly fired one coach after seeing it wasn't a fit.  Nope, not the Wings.  Kenny won a Cup so he has a lifetime job and we'll be stuck with Blashill because it's somehow not his fault everyone on the team is regressing.  I hate to be a bandwagon fan, but the interest in this team is at an all time low.  They think the new arena will stir up interest.  It won't for the actual fans.

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I see the Tigers as being where the Wings were around 3 years ago. The Tigers could still end badly, but I hold out a glimmer of hope because a:) 3 years ago wasn't too late; b) while Avila's record to date has been spotty, he at least recognizes there's a problem and is willing to deal; and c) if you're willing to break out the checkbook, I think it's easier to reset and rebuild in baseball than in hockey.

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