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4 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I think it is too late to throw in the towel.   Discuss.

The season is not over on May 24th.  Book it.

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2 minutes ago, Casimir said:

The season is not over on May 24th.  Book it.

Stop drinking the kool-aid. You have to be objective and realistic, like me. The season was over before it began.

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I'd feel worse about it if all our guys were performing up to par and we were still in this situation, but fortunately that is not the case.   Even though you can expect some age related decline from guys like Kinsler, Cabrera and V-Mart you shouldn't expect this much in one year.  I fully expect them to bounce back(V-Mart looks like he is on his way to now).    Castellanos is another one that I expect to bounce back offensively, I just feel he needs a couple days off to regroup. 

Pitching wise is more of a question mark, atleast starting pitching.  I expect JV to rebound but I'm still not sold on Norris, Boyd and Zimm, if two of those three can be more reliable than that puts the rotation in solid shape.   I also think we can all agree the BP is much better now with KRod out of high leverage situation and the improvement of Wilson, Wilson and Greene. 

Bottom line is that even though we have had some unforseen production from guys like Deuce and Avila, I still think the team as a whole has more room for positive correction than negative.  You factor that in to the fact that nobody in the division has really ran away with things yet and I say that its far too early to give up on things. 

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Just watch the damn games. Agonizing over things like this in May is dumb. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Just watch the damn games. Agonizing over things like this in May is dumb. 

 

Can't we do both?

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3 minutes ago, kdog said:

I like agonizing.

Agreed. If you're not agonizing, you're not trying.

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4 hours ago, tiger337 said:

The acquisition of Maybin was good too.  The Pelfrey signing seemed bad at the time.  He said it was a scouting move, but I was skeptical.  The Aviles pickup also seemed bad.  It was mostly harmless but just a strange choice.  It's hard to fault him for some of the other stuff, but the results have not been good.  I agree it's hard to judge him after two years, but at the same time it's hard to have a lot of faith in him leading a major overhaul.  

Don't forget the Lowe and Zimmermann signings. The more you look at Aviles moves, the worse he looks.

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14 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Don't forget the Lowe and Zimmermann signings. The more you look at Aviles moves, the worse he looks.

I didn't hear a lot of complaining when Zimmerman and Lowe were signed.  Some pointed to some warning signs, but I don't remember people being upset at those moves. Free agent pitchers are usually risky and the majority seem to disappoint.   

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2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Don't forget the Lowe and Zimmermann signings. The more you look at Aviles moves, the worse he looks.

I don't know that looking at a move in hindsight is the best way to evaluate the decision making that went into the move. 

The Zimmermann deal was not unreasonable. He was pegged as a free agent landmine by Dave Cameron at fangraphs, but that was largely based on a projected 7/140 deal. We signed him for 5/110. Cameron said it was a solid deal. There was simply very little criticism of this deal at the time it was made, so I don't see a good reason to use it against Avila just because Z has imploded. 

The Lowe signing didn't work out, but 2/12 or whatever it was not bad at all. 

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I recall being a fan of the Zimmerman trade.  I did not think that much of the Lowe signing at the time.  I did not 'not like it', but I did not like it either.

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I didn't hear a lot of complaining when Zimmerman and Lowe were signed.  Some pointed to some warning signs, but I don't remember people being upset at those moves. Free agent pitchers are usually risky and the majority seem to disappoint.   

So true. And every now and then, a FA BP arm turns out to be very good. But that doesn't seem to happen to us often enough, if ever.

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9 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I don't know that looking at a move in hindsight is the best way to evaluate the decision making that went into the move. 

The Zimmermann deal was not unreasonable. He was pegged as a free agent landmine by Dave Cameron at fangraphs, but that was largely based on a projected 7/140 deal. We signed him for 5/110. Cameron said it was a solid deal. There was simply very little criticism of this deal at the time it was made, so I don't see a good reason to use it against Avila just because Z has imploded. 

The Lowe signing didn't work out, but 2/12 or whatever it was not bad at all. 

I wanted to target Samardzija pretty exclusively, but the Zimmermann deal was for less than I thought as well, so I was okay with it. The main reason I wanted Samardzija was that he wasn't going to get any worse in my estimation--completely healthy, low arm mileage, and the stuff was good enough that he wasn't going to regress.

I liked the Lowe signing (though I thought it was a couple million too much), and liked the KRod and JWilson trades as well.

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I don't remember liking the Lowe deal, I usually am not excited about one hot year guys. I didn't know enough about Zimmerman to have much opinion on him

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Well, its better than championing Craig Paquette and Jose Paniagua, but they didn't cost what Lowe and JZ cost.  

 

Those back to back losses in Oakland are going to haunt this team at the end of the season. 

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I was concerned about the Zimm signing, namely because of his declining peripherals, stuff and the fact he was moving from the comfy NL East to the AL.  I really wanted Samardzija or Cueto instead, but with that said I did not expect him to be this bad.  I just figured he would be a decent number 3 instead of a good number 2 that we were expecting. 

I also was leery about the Lowe signing just because he had been so up and down his whole career and I thought he could be a fluke, but again wasn't expecting him to be that bad.  I thought maybe a high 3 low 4 ERA that maybe relegated to the 7th inning instead of a shut down set up guy that we were hoping for. 

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I don't mind signing relievers coming off of one good season, as long as their peripherals and stuff are solid, which Lowe's were.

Of course that seemed to change as soon as we signed him, but in general I think it's worth the risk. I'd rather sign guys like Lowe than declining closers.

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36 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I don't mind signing relievers coming off of one good season, as long as their peripherals and stuff are solid, which Lowe's were.

Of course that seemed to change as soon as we signed him, but in general I think it's worth the risk. I'd rather sign guys like Lowe than declining closers.

And in this case it's just money. The pen was so bad. They added an arm to the pen. Sure, they could have gone cheaper on some bounce back guys, but I'd rather have the guy that was good most recently. 

We hear all the time that what good is a big payroll if you aren't willing to spend a bit more to address a glaring need. The Tigers had a glaring need and addressed it. Not every deal works out. 

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I didn't hear a lot of complaining when Zimmerman and Lowe were signed.  Some pointed to some warning signs, but I don't remember people being upset at those moves. Free agent pitchers are usually risky and the majority seem to disappoint.   

I wasn't loud enough about Lowe?  I honestly thought I was beating a dead horse before he started pitching like a dead horse.

I remember folks mentioning some trepidation about Zimmermann, but the slide he has been in is pretty drastic.  He's had a few decent outings here, so hopefully it's a sign of good things to come. 

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55 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I don't mind signing relievers coming off of one good season, as long as their peripherals and stuff are solid, which Lowe's were.

Of course that seemed to change as soon as we signed him, but in general I think it's worth the risk. I'd rather sign guys like Lowe than declining closers.

Lowe has been so inconsistent in his career.  I think it'd be better to go after starters that don't have the third pitch and/or struggle after a certain number of pitches or after a first trip through the lineup.

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7 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Lowe has been so inconsistent in his career.  I think it'd be better to go after starters that don't have the third pitch and/or struggle after a certain number of pitches or after a first trip through the lineup.

I don't think there are many pitchers out there that fit this description. 

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5 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I don't think there are many pitchers out there that fit this description. 

Only because they are all relievers now.  

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