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So what does it look like now

 

Starters - Verlander, Fullmer, Zimmerman, Norris, Sanchez

 

Bullpen - K-Rod, JWilson, Saupold, Stumpf, Greene, Boyd, Ryan  

 

Unless they want Boyd to keep starting in the minors.   

 

Pelfrey can't be far behind.    They can't even be entertaining the thought of him coming north.  

 

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Thank you....Thank you.... Thank you....Thank you.....Thank you......Thank you........

Pelfrey next....Please and Thank You...

 

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1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

So what does it look like now

 

Starters - Verlander, Fullmer, Zimmerman, Norris, Sanchez

 

Bullpen - K-Rod, JWilson, Saupold, Stumpf, Greene, Boyd, Ryan  

 

Unless they want Boyd to keep starting in the minors.   

 

Pelfrey can't be far behind.    They can't even be entertaining the thought of him coming north.  

 

Saupold has already been sent down to Toledo

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Boyd & Sanchez should both be in the rotation.    Zimmerman is brutal right now and sorry, I am not buying the whole "working on things" at this point.  We are at the point where these pitchers are on the entrance ramp and building up speed to merge into the season.   Zimmerman is on the service drive right now, broke down with a flat.   

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2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

  Zimmerman is on the service drive right now, broke down with a flat.   

Zimmerman's line today;

5.1 innings, 2 hits, 1 ER, 1BB, 4 K.

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6 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:

Zimmerman's line today;

5.1 innings, 2 hits, 1 ER, 1BB, 4 K.

A pedestrian line against Buffalo.

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30 minutes ago, Casimir said:

A pedestrian line against Buffalo.

Yea, it's too bad we don't have like 1,199 innings of major league pitching to determine how good Zimmerman can be.

Or you know, look at Zimmerman's previous spring training's and regular season results....:

Spring training                                  Regular season
2015 3.80 ERA 23.2 innings,   / 3.66 ERA 201.2 innings
2014 .050 ERA 18 innings       / 2.66 ERA 199.2 innings
2013 5.38 ERA 28 innings       / 3.15 ERA 213 innings
2012 3.38 ERA 26.2 innings    / 2.94 ERA 195.2 innings
2011 3.91 ERA 23 innings       / 3.18 ERA 161.1 innings

I'm sure every Washington fan thought Zimmerman would be garbage for 2013 after watching spring training too....
 

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27 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:

Yea, it's too bad we don't have like 1,199 innings of major league pitching to determine how good Zimmerman can be.

Or you know, look at Zimmerman's previous spring training's and regular season results....:

Spring training                                  Regular season
2015 3.80 ERA 23.2 innings,   / 3.66 ERA 201.2 innings
2014 .050 ERA 18 innings       / 2.66 ERA 199.2 innings
2013 5.38 ERA 28 innings       / 3.15 ERA 213 innings
2012 3.38 ERA 26.2 innings    / 2.94 ERA 195.2 innings
2011 3.91 ERA 23 innings       / 3.18 ERA 161.1 innings

I'm sure every Washington fan thought Zimmerman would be garbage for 2013 after watching spring training too....
 

He was injured last season.  Ineffective when he came back.  Struggled this season.  And the opposition today was Ezequiel Cabrera and Kendrys Morales.  So I think being skeptical about the success of this start isn't too uncalled for.

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33 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:

Yea, it's too bad we don't have like 1,199 innings of major league pitching to determine how good Zimmerman can be.

Or you know, look at Zimmerman's previous spring training's and regular season results....:

Spring training                                  Regular season
2015 3.80 ERA 23.2 innings,   / 3.66 ERA 201.2 innings
2014 .050 ERA 18 innings       / 2.66 ERA 199.2 innings
2013 5.38 ERA 28 innings       / 3.15 ERA 213 innings
2012 3.38 ERA 26.2 innings    / 2.94 ERA 195.2 innings
2011 3.91 ERA 23 innings       / 3.18 ERA 161.1 innings

I'm sure every Washington fan thought Zimmerman would be garbage for 2013 after watching spring training too....
 

You have to really separate the last 300 innings of his big league career from the rest because there has been a major difference.  Perhaps Brad needs to catch a bullpen session for JZ.  

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2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You have to really separate the last 300 innings of his big league career from the rest because there has been a major difference.  Perhaps Brad needs to catch a bullpen session for JZ.  

I kind of wonder when he'll catch one for Gose.

I wonder how Pelfrey is feeling today?

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5 minutes ago, Casimir said:

He was injured last season.  Ineffective when he came back.  Struggled this season.  And the opposition today was Ezequiel Cabrera and Kendrys Morales.  So I think being skeptical about the success of this start isn't too uncalled for.

He hasn't struggled this year, yet. Every year people make a big deal out of spring stats, and truly, they don't mean ****. If he's healthy, he's starting. He wasn't ever really healthy when he came back last year.

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Just now, Longgone said:

He hasn't struggled this year, yet. Every year people make a big deal out of spring stats, and truly, they don't mean ****. If he's healthy, he's starting. He wasn't ever really healthy when he came back last year.

I agree, if Zimmermann is healthy, he's starting.  I just wonder if he's really healthy.  I mean, he was healthy last season, except that it turns out that he wasn't as healthy as he claims he was.

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Casimir, we are free to disagree and I think we just will when it comes to Zimmerman for this season. 

I'm sure in 2013 Zimmerman was only blown up in spring training games by teams that started their top players and yet those same teams decided in 2014 Zimmerman needed a break and only started their rookie league players instead for spring training that year.  Regardless of who put what against Zimmerman, when the season started, he was still pretty good.

Like it or not, Zimmerman is very likely to start for the Tigers and I don't think a ERA of 3.50 to just under 4.00 is unrealistic for the 2017 season.  There are a lot more things to worry about for the Tigers, Zimmerman to me is just not one of those things to worry about right now.  I think he will be fine....

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I have been skeptical this spring because I wanted to see him get some outs at least once before the season, and he looked OK today. His command was dodgy but his velocity was OK and his threw a good number of good breaking balls. When talking about a veteran in ST I guess I can take that. 

Now that said, it is certainly a possibility (though a long shot certainly) that by mid season, Zimmerman might be perfectly healthy, be his normal career average self, and still not be as good a starter as Sanchez or Boyd or Norris. And it that turns out to be the case, the Tigers should get a good LH hitting OF out of it I hope.....

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8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

You have to really separate the last 300 innings of his big league career from the rest because there has been a major difference.  Perhaps Brad needs to catch a bullpen session for JZ.  


Look, there was a "major difference" in Justin Verlander  when you separate the 2013 and 2014 seasons with the rest of his career.  2014 Verlander pitched 206 inning and had a ERA of 4.54 trending up from his 2013 ERA of 3.46 in with 218 inning pitched.  I mean Verlander had a ERA for the 2015 spring training of 5.63 (probably against Buffalo level players too)- clearly the Tigers should have done something to stop Verlander from throwing a 3.38 ERA for the 2015 season and a 3.04 ERA for 2016 too... Maybe stick Verlander in the pen or given him away to another team and paid a large amount of his contract for another team to take him,....etc...

I don't mean to be snarky about this (sorry by the way), but I think Zimmerman just wasn't healthy last year and he's working it out now.  He's got a good track record of success and knows how to pitch.  Will Zimmerman be a top 10 pitcher for 2017-  don't know.  But I am pretty sure the Tigers will give Zimmerman a lot of time and room to start the season to see what form he can return too. 

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7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Boyd & Sanchez should both be in the rotation.    Zimmerman is brutal right now and sorry, I am not buying the whole "working on things" at this point.  We are at the point where these pitchers are on the entrance ramp and building up speed to merge into the season.   Zimmerman is on the service drive right now, broke down with a flat.   

This is absurd. He's in year two and was hurt last year. 

Zimm is in the rotation, as he should. Boyd probably is too with Sanchez in the BP. At least that's how I'd do it. 

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18 minutes ago, Yoda said:

This is absurd. He's in year two and was hurt last year. 

Zimm is in the rotation, as he should. Boyd probably is too with Sanchez in the BP. At least that's how I'd do it. 

That would be my preference as well subject to two downsides: 1)Does Sanchez now need regular work to keep these changes dialed in, or will he regress if he sits too much before they can become ingrained?2)Can Ausmus bring himself to use a long reliever in an unconventional manner? I think if you want to get value out of Sanchez out of the pen, you have to use him in more of the "Miller" role even at something more than a 70 ip per season rate - which would then avoid problem #1 as well.

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4 hours ago, STLTiger69 said:

Casimir, we are free to disagree and I think we just will when it comes to Zimmerman for this season. 

I'm sure in 2013 Zimmerman was only blown up in spring training games by teams that started their top players and yet those same teams decided in 2014 Zimmerman needed a break and only started their rookie league players instead for spring training that year.  Regardless of who put what against Zimmerman, when the season started, he was still pretty good.

Like it or not, Zimmerman is very likely to start for the Tigers and I don't think a ERA of 3.50 to just under 4.00 is unrealistic for the 2017 season.  There are a lot more things to worry about for the Tigers, Zimmerman to me is just not one of those things to worry about right now.  I think he will be fine....

There's no question Zimmermann is in the rotation if he's healthy. I don't think anyone doubts that.

I think that there's been some concern that he hasn't looked so great this spring, especially given the context of how his 2016 went down the tubes after being hurt and neglecting to admit that he was hurt, which he eventually confessed.

The line today was fine, but again, it was against 1 1/2 major league hitters, so it should have been a pretty clean outing.

Again, with the context of his past, what, 9'or 10 months, I'm not sold on him being 100% right now.

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9 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

That would be my preference as well subject to two downsides: 1)Does Sanchez now need regular work to keep these changes dialed in, or will he regress if he sits too much before they can become ingrained?2)Can Ausmus bring himself to use a long reliever in an unconventional manner? I think if you want to get value out of Sanchez out of the pen, you have to use him in more of the "Miller" role even at something more than a 70 ip per season rate - which would then avoid problem #1 as well.

I question Ausmus' ability to get away from the bullpen paint by numbers junk.

I agree about using Sanchez.  I don't see why he couldn't get the old style 2 or 3 IP save every once in a while.

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