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Deleterious

2017 NBA Draft

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3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

The funny thing about Detroit if they had chosen to tank when Gores bought them.  

You're still looking at an extended Drummond.  You're still looking at paying KCP a big amount of money this year.

Both were young when Gores came in.  I assume both would have been kept for the tank since they were young, promising, and cheap.  

QFT

This team had very little hope if AD didn't turn into an All-world player. It's a shame about Reggie's knee because I really think the conversation is very different this year with a healthy Reggie in 2017. But, if If's and buts....

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1 hour ago, DaBishop said:

QFT

This team had very little hope if AD didn't turn into an All-world player. It's a shame about Reggie's knee because I really think the conversation is very different this year with a healthy Reggie in 2017. But, if If's and buts....

What is the conversation with a healthy Reggie last year though?  The most likely scenario is we are in that 5-8 seed range again, which is still part of NBA purgatory.   

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Don't know if that's true. I personally think we're in that 50 win range(47-49). I mean, we should have won 42 if we don't collapse into a puddle of poo at the end of last year(still no clue what happened but the word "quit" comes to mind)  Maybe we're 5th seed, but that's no slouch for a team on the rise (which we all hoped). We'd have hope for this season certainly. Might've won a series...who knows. Of course this is all serious Blue and Rose glasses conjecture but not necessarily out of the realm of reality. (someone's gotta be a homer in this crowd)

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6 hours ago, DaBishop said:

QFT

This team had very little hope if AD didn't turn into an All-world player.

Yup. We were all so worried the team would make the wrong decision about Monroe vs Drummond, and now it's turned out it was a question with no right answer.

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Drummond has lead the league in ORB the last four years, and collected over 2300 total rebounds over the past two seasons, but we talk about him like he's something we scrape off the bottom of our shoes.

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1 hour ago, mickeyb105 said:

Drummond has lead the league in ORB the last four years, and collected over 2300 total rebounds over the past two seasons, but we talk about him like he's something we scrape off the bottom of our shoes.

Totally agree on this.  He may be maddening as **** but he is still the best player we got by a pretty wide margin.  

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1 hour ago, mickeyb105 said:

Drummond has lead the league in ORB the last four years, and collected over 2300 total rebounds over the past two seasons, but we talk about him like he's something we scrape off the bottom of our shoes.

He is the Eddie Yost of basketball.

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59 minutes ago, Hart said:

Totally agree on this.  He may be maddening as **** but he is still the best player we got by a pretty wide margin.  

kcp is a better player than drummond.

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Derrick Walton is the next Chris Paul.  Once he gets cut after summer league we should sign and start him. 

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On 6/23/2017 at 10:48 PM, mickeyb105 said:

--it has been said that almost every GM in the NBA would have taken Darko at #2 that year.

I recall that as well.  That fact always gets lost, though.

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13 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I recall that as well.  That fact always gets lost, though.

This may or may not be true but it is doesn't change the fact it was a scouting mistake.  If just goes to show how inexact of a science scouting has become now with players getting drafted at 18 and 19 years old now.  

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8 minutes ago, Hart said:

This may or may not be true but it is doesn't change the fact it was a scouting mistake.  If just goes to show how inexact of a science scouting has become now with players getting drafted at 18 and 19 years old now.  

Was it a scouting mistake?  Was it a development mistake?  Was it just a bad situation for Milicic to be in?  Some combination of the 3?

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A 17 year old kid who played less than 10 MPG in some backwoods Serbian beer league?  You had to be a complete idiot to waste a #2 pick on someone like that.

 

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

I recall that as well.  That fact always gets lost, though.

It's not a "fact."  It's "been said".  I'm not sure that's true at all.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

It's not a "fact."  It's "been said".  I'm not sure that's true at all.

Chad Ford was respected when he wrote this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story?id=1490974

Quote

He is his own player. Comparisons quickly escape him. Is he Gasol? No, he's much stronger. Is he Nowitzki? Again, he's stronger and a much more physical player. 

European players, like most African-American players, are stuck with stereotypes. You know the code words. Skills, fundamentals, great feel for the game. Milicic is all of these things, but he's not only these things. He's fast, athletic and will dunk it in your face.

"When you look at 17-year-old big men in the States, you're basically looking at kids trying to grow into their body," one NBA scout told ESPN.com. "They are so much bigger than the local competition that they just end up being lazy and dunking all of the time. Darko's biggest advantage is that he's played against players who are his equal or better for a long time. That's how players, especially big men, get better. LeBron lapped his competition sometime last year."

 "More than Nowitzki, Gasol or even Divac, Darko has a nasty streak in him that will help him succeed in the post," a league executive said. "A lot of the Europeans are really threes in the pros. He'll be a true low-post player. His coach is doing us a huge favor by forcing him to develop those skills now. He already has moves that remind me of (Hakeem) Olajuwon in the post. Once we get a hold of him, the sky's the limit."

"Darko is really one of a kind. He runs the floor, handles the ball, shoots the NBA 3 and plays with his back to the basket, so you can slot him in at the 3, 4 or 5 positions. OK, a few other guys can do that too; what sets Darko apart is his toughness in the post. You have to love a guy who has the footwork to spin by an opponent but still prefers to lower a shoulder and bang. Fact is, Milicic plays in attack-mode at both ends of the floor. The more you push, the more he pushes back. While he won't be asked to carry the Pistons, he's capable of doing this earlier than you think."

"The Raptors tried to trade this pick (Bosh), but couldn't find any takers."

Late Pistons scout Will Robinson:

Quote

"He’s going to own the game. Own the game. We’re going to have to build a new arena. The only thing that could destroy a kid like that is a woman.  Darko reminds me of a young Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt used to do a little of everything, and I haven’t seen a big man with so much skill since Wilt."

Marc Stein:

Quote

"The gap that once existed with international players is gone, and with the position that (Milicic) plays, he's right in line to take a team that's not on the map and put it there," Eastern Conference GM No. 2 said.

[...] I have Darko as a clear-cut No. 2," West exec No. 2 said.

Dumars:

Quote

Absolutely, it was a mistake. I could give a dissertation on now. After I drafted Darko, from that point on, the amount of background we do on every single player that you see us draft is ridiculous. We do as much or more background than any other team in the NBA because of that. The background on Darko was about 20 percent of what we do now. I look back on it now and realize you didn't know half of the stuff you needed to know. With Darko, we may have had two sources of information. That was it. We may have talked to a couple of guys over in Europe. That was it.

I'm not sure why we talking about Darko again, but let's just say that the information age helps prevent draft mistakes like this from happening now.  But let's not act like Dumars and the Pistons were the only ones who would have made this mistake in 2003.  Finding the next Dirk was a big deal back then, and it is easy to play revisionist historian in 2017.

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7 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

Chad Ford was respected when he wrote this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story?id=1490974

Late Pistons scout Will Robinson:

Marc Stein:

Dumars:

I'm not sure why we talking about Darko again, but let's just say that the information age helps prevent draft mistakes like this from happening now.  But let's not act like Dumars and the Pistons were the only ones who would have made this mistake in 2003.  Finding the next Dirk was a big deal back then, and it is easy to play revisionist historian in 2017.

i'm not acting like they were "the only ones", however, relying on chad ford and marc stein talking to joe dumars and the  saying its "gm's" isnt a "fact."  didnt we learn fron the woj takedown article about how these things work?

if you think every gm would have taken darko over anthony youre nuts.

then again, you seem to think the sub 40 win pistons were more successful than than the #1 seed in the east celtics.

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37 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i'm not acting like they were "the only ones", however, relying on chad ford and marc stein talking to joe dumars and the  saying its "gm's" isnt a "fact."  didnt we learn fron the woj takedown article about how these things work?

if you think every gm would have taken darko over anthony youre nuts.

then again, you seem to think the sub 40 win pistons were more successful than than the #1 seed in the east celtics.

Obviously, I have not spoken to every GM personally and I can't come up with my own primary sources.  Ford was still very respected at this time, so think he is complete full of rubbish if you please.  Obviously, it pleases you very much. 

I would like to think you are a better lawyer than attempting to pass last part of your post off as what I either said or meant.  You can do better. 

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20 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Obviously, I have not spoken to every GM personally and I can't come up with my own primary sources.  Ford was still very respected at this time, so think he is complete full of rubbish if you please.  Obviously, it pleases you very much. 

I would like to think you are a better lawyer than attempting to pass last part of your post off as what I either said or meant.  You can do better. 

i think many gms would have taken darko.  i do not think all of them would have.  i dont think we'll ever know.

i do think that the line that everyone woukd have taken darko is untrue and is peddled to let dumars off the hook for passing on three hall of famers. 

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On 6/23/2017 at 10:10 AM, Betrayer said:

Huh? This roster is cap maxed and couldn't make the playoffs last year. The year before - when Reggie and Dre were at their best - they barely made the 8th seed. That's acceptable to you? For SVG to continue to do the same thing every year and hope for different results?

I believe we are a young team growing. We aren't a contender, but the only route to being one is to find a superstar and that isn't going to happen via any trade or signing we can actually pull off right now. SG has gotten this team on some pretty good runs with the team constructed similarly to how it is now(Jennings pre injury and then post Jackson trade) so I want to see if he can get that going consistently. Most of the year we outperformed our record last year and Jackson obviously wasn't right.

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14 hours ago, Buddha said:

i think many gms would have taken darko.  i do not think all of them would have.  i dont think we'll ever know.

i do think that the line that everyone woukd have taken darko is untrue and is peddled to let dumars off the hook for passing on three hall of famers. 

but ya, many likely would have and sometimes a guy just busts

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On 6/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, mickeyb105 said:

Drummond has lead the league in ORB the last four years, and collected over 2300 total rebounds over the past two seasons, but we talk about him like he's something we scrape off the bottom of our shoes.

Because he's been bad at both offense and defense(non rebounding)

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36 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

without the D of course

Even Manu wasn't a finished product at 20 or 21.

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4 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Even Manu wasn't a finished product at 20 or 21.

Of course not, but do you see Kennard potentially developing into a stud defender?

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I Don't get the Ginobli comparisons. 

Maybe the 84 year old Manu we have today.  But back in the day Manu was pretty quick and athletic.  

And he had better hair.

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