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2 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

It's also possible, and likely probable, that KH believes McIlrath is a better player than he's been given credit for.

That's the only thing that scares me. If it comes out for example that someone was willing to give the Wings a 2nd straight up but Kenny thought a 3rd + junk was better.

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Why are Green, Gus and Tatar still with this team? Kenny should be actively shopping these guys around. We need to go full-on tank now.

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Is it correct that mcilrath is not going to be in high demand as a free agent? If Kenny does like him a bit, I guess there is some benefit in having him on the team now in order to sign him before free agency starts. Maybe get him for cheap and prevent one of the few teams that also like him from beating that cheap offer. 

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7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Why are Green, Gus and Tatar still with this team? Kenny should be actively shopping these guys around. We need to go full-on tank now.

Green has a NTC, and Nyquist's salary is not commensurate with his production over the past two years.  Tatar has played well, has a low salary, and should be desirable in a market.

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4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Is it correct that mcilrath is not going to be in high demand as a free agent? If Kenny does like him a bit, I guess there is some benefit in having him on the team now in order to sign him before free agency starts. Maybe get him for cheap and prevent one of the few teams that also like him from beating that cheap offer. 

Possibly, but it still diminishes his value. The guy was on waivers twice this year I think too. He seems like a Marchenko replacement, who we lost for nothing.

Trade is official now. The only spin might be that if FLA makes the playoffs, the pick will be #2 in the 3rd round.

I do at least like this better than keeping Vanek. I don't really want to re-sign him to a multi-year deal, and we need to tank for draft position.

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1 minute ago, Euphdude said:

Green has a NTC, and Nyquist's salary is not commensurate with his production over the past two years.  Tatar has played well, has a low salary, and should be desirable in a market.

Ask Green to waive his NTC. Nyquist's trade market is still there IMO because I think GM's will look at the system and situation he has been in over the past season and a half. I'm not saying he'll bring in a sizable haul, but a 2nd + prospect or multiple picks is a likely deal.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Ask Green to waive his NTC. Nyquist's trade market is still there IMO because I think GM's will look at the system and situation he has been in over the past season and a half. I'm not saying he'll bring in a sizable haul, but a 2nd + prospect or multiple picks is a likely deal.

Really, that much? I'd dump Nyquist for a 6th and be happy.

Man, that Abdelkader contract is bad.

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3 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Really, that much? I'd dump Nyquist for a 6th and be happy.

Man, that Abdelkader contract is bad.

I wouldn't be shocked if a young, former 2x 20+ goal scorer netted that kind of haul from a desperate GM. I have to think there is a front office out there that looks at this guy as being someone they can turnaround in the right system with the right guys around him.

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I wouldn't be shocked if a young, former 2x 20+ goal scorer netted that kind of haul from a desperate GM. I have to think there is a front office out there that looks at this guy as being someone they can turnaround in the right system with the right guys around him.

I strongly disagree. Nyquist was a product of the system for his 20 goal years. I don't think teams will pay $5M hoping that he returns to merely that.

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Would be dumb to give up Tatar and Nyquist for those type of returns. They're both in their mid-20s and even in down seasons like the ones they're having produce more than 95% of 2nd rounders and lower. I'd trade them for promising AHLers or for NHL projects, not for picks.

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Tatar is a RFA so there's no salary issue there, at the moment. But Nyquist at $4.75M seems like a lot for a team going nowhere.

Hopefully he picks it up and has some value to the team on the ice or in a trade going forward.

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Just now, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Tatar is a RFA so there's no salary issue there, at the moment. But Nyquist at $4.75M seems like a lot for a team going nowhere.

Hopefully he picks it up and has some value to the team on the ice or in a trade going forward.

Yes, totally agree about Nyquist's salary, so would have to retain some to make him appealing, but I don't think the Wings should be playing to the cap the next couple of years anyways (doesn't mean they won't, in fact they almost certainly will).

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5 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Would be dumb to give up Tatar and Nyquist for those type of returns. They're both in their mid-20s and even in down seasons like the ones they're having produce more than 95% of 2nd rounders and lower. I'd trade them for promising AHLers or for NHL projects, not for picks.

I did say plus a prospect in my original post. In terms of multiple picks, you wouldn't give up Nyquist if the offer included a 1st round pick (not that I think it would)?

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Just now, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I did say plus a prospect in my original post. In terms of multiple picks, you wouldn't give up Nyquist if the offer included a 1st round pick (not that I think it would)?

Yes, for sure for a 1st. I was responding more to the 6th rounder post. 2nd + prospect would be worth looking at for sure.

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3 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Yes, for sure for a 1st. I was responding more to the 6th rounder post. 2nd + prospect would be worth looking at for sure.

Gotcha. We are approaching 3pm and I don't expect Kenny to move either Gus or Tatar at this point.

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3 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Yes, totally agree about Nyquist's salary, so would have to retain some to make him appealing, but I don't think the Wings should be playing to the cap the next couple of years anyways (doesn't mean they won't, in fact they almost certainly will).

True. I would guess they won't really need cap space the next couple years, so there's not much reason to dump salary.

But the other point remains, I don't think he has much trade value.

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Deadline has hit and Sportsnet says Radem Vrbata will not be traded. 47 points this year. Kypreos shocked. Was considered a Vanek comparable. 

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1 hour ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Tatar is a RFA so there's no salary issue there, at the moment. But Nyquist at $4.75M seems like a lot for a team going nowhere.

Hopefully he picks it up and has some value to the team on the ice or in a trade going forward.

I think it's all about hoping he can reestablish value. For as much as it seems beneficial to tank, the real value of tanking lies in not committing any new salary to veterans that have no shot of helping once the team becomes decent again. It's not easy to tank enough to get the top pick, and it's also not easy to get lucky enough to have the top pick when a generational talent is available. 

With the way this league has embraced parity, it's not crazy to think this team could rebound in the next couple seasons. They will need to get a little lucky, but it wouldn't be the worst thing to have gus around, or to re-sign tatar. I think there is still value to being semi competitive. 

Just collect draft picks where you can, which they have done, don't trade for veterans, which they aren't, and don't overpay or extend guys that aren't worth the money (which they have done in the past).

Stand pat more or less over the next season and take your lumps figuring out who can play. Then see if there are some moves to be made in the following offseason to address whatever glaring needs there are. 

For as bad as the wings have been, there isn't a lot separating the 14th best team in the league from the 28th best team. 

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

I think it's all about hoping he can reestablish value. For as much as it seems beneficial to tank, the real value of tanking lies in not committing any new salary to veterans that have no shot of helping once the team becomes decent again. It's not easy to tank enough to get the top pick, and it's also not easy to get lucky enough to have the top pick when a generational talent is available. 

With the way this league has embraced parity, it's not crazy to think this team could rebound in the next couple seasons. They will need to get a little lucky, but it wouldn't be the worst thing to have gus around, or to re-sign tatar. I think there is still value to being semi competitive. 

Just collect draft picks where you can, which they have done, don't trade for veterans, which they aren't, and don't overpay or extend guys that aren't worth the money (which they have done in the past).

Stand pat more or less over the next season and take your lumps figuring out who can play. Then see if there are some moves to be made in the following offseason to address whatever glaring needs there are. 

For as bad as the wings have been, there isn't a lot separating the 14th best team in the league from the 28th best team. 

They're not going to tank next year, I didn't mean to imply that. But I don't think they're going to go sign a Neilsen or whatever next year, probably no the following year either. There should only be a few Vanek and Ott type 1 year deals. But yes, in that sense it doesn't make sense to deal Nyquist and his 2 years just to sign some older guys to short contracts.

The rest of this year I imagine they would play youngins' as much as they can without affecting the expansion draft. It is frustrating that they have some meh veterans on iffy contracts that are not good right now and probably not going to get much better. Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson just don't have any real upside that would exceed their contract. DeKuyser, Nyquist, Howard, Kronwall may still, but certainly haven't this season. And all 7 of these guys are making $3.85M per year or more for at least 2 more seasons beyond this one.

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Yeah. I admit to not having a great grasp on NHL salaries and the cap and all that, but there is an area between full tank and "rebuild on the fly" that I think they could hit. And if they can do that, the decent players that make some money and aren't dragging the team down with their play can be valuable as a bridge to next playoff team. 

Basically, I think Gus and Tatar could be an important part to the next team that makes the playoffs. 

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I want to see what players like Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist and DeKeyser do under a new coach. Mrazek too, although coaches don't have much impact on goalies' play. I'm wary of selling low on them.

Holland shouldn't be active on July 1 free agency day. Like Drizzle said, if anything at all only short-term deals for guys like a Vanek or an Ott who could then be traded at the deadline would be fine. 

Face it, Holland has to be considered one of the 2017 trade deadline winners. 4 baits, 4 hooks. Cumulative haul of one 2nd, three 3rds, and one 6th is as good have been expected. Disappointment on Vanek offset by pleasant surprise on Jurco and Smith. Looking at the marginal returns yielded for forwards like Iginla, Stafford, and Filppula plus no deal for Vrbata, I feel better about the Vanek trade. Imagine if Florida traded for Vrbata instead and there was no market by the deadline for Vanek and Holland was left with nothing - "social media" would have gone b*t****.

 

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19 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Yeah. I admit to not having a great grasp on NHL salaries and the cap and all that, but there is an area between full tank and "rebuild on the fly" that I think they could hit. And if they can do that, the decent players that make some money and aren't dragging the team down with their play can be valuable as a bridge to next playoff team. 

Basically, I think Gus and Tatar could be an important part to the next team that makes the playoffs. 

As I said, dumping Gus for a 6th is not a good idea. I just don't really like him. I do think if either player was having a better year, they should have been dealt. They have some value as a bridge, but they have no value for the Red Wings rest of the season, so you would have liked to turn that into increased value down the road.

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With the streak ending and it being a deeper draft next year, I am down with tanking next year. I wouldn't make any signing similar to Vanek's last year. Let the younger guys play in the NHL, see what you have.

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Was watching NHL network earlier and they were down on Vanek's game especially his defense,  and he's been a problem with other teams in the past. 

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