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Deleterious

2017 NBA trade deadline

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2 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

Toronto got the big they needed at the deadline, Boston didn't. 

Despite your criticism of the C's since before the season(and so far you've been monumentally wrong about how good they'd be) they are by no means doing it with smoke and mirrors. Thomas has grown into an All-NBA type player, their coaching has been terrific, and they are beating good teams convincingly (Utah, Houston, Toronto, LAC over the last 11 games). Horford has adapted to the 2nd option nicely and I think teams will pay a price in the playoffs if they start focusing solely on stopping IT. Stevens will have a plan for that. I think they're looking really good right now.

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18 hours ago, Buddha said:

Jimmy Diva is going to talk his way out of town.  Great player, one of the best in the league, but he's taking his diva game to a new level.  He's yelled at his coach during the game multiple times.  In fact, they caught him on camera when Hoiberg told him to call time out saying "what?  **** no" and then taking the ball, going one on five, and scoring.

And the Bulls are going nowhere.  If they could get Boston to part with Brooklyn's #1 pick, Crowder, and a future #1, I would do it.

I agree with you that is too much to turn down.  I also did not realize the extent of his diva-ness.  Plus he is 27 and will be past his prime the way the Bulls are going so it only makes sense to trade him for a king's ransom like that.  

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3 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Many stars do this stuff. When their teams are good, we call them leaders(see brady yelling at Edelman on the sidelines or Lebron taking the last shot), when their teams suck, we call them divas(see DMC,Butler and Harden when the rockets aren't doing well in a given year)

This is true to a certain extent but not a hard and fast rule.  Sheed was a knucklehead even when the Pistons were winning championships.  Cousins will be the same way if he is ever on a championship team.  Same with Dennis Rodman.  I agree with your Brady example...he would get killed for those actions if the Patriots were losers.  

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I love the Celtics core of Horford, Crowder, and Thomas.  Butler would actually be the perfect fit for them if they can land him without trading one of those three players and that would be a very dangerous team to Cleveland.  That said, I will always be bitter about the Celtics landing Garnett for Jefferson and some spare parts and changing the balance of power in the East when the Pistons were on top.  I hope they don't land Butler.    

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Not sure Crowder is part of their core since most expect Brown to eventually replace him.

Bradley is part of their core tho and their best all around player.  Bradley is basically equal to KCP on defense and a better offensive player, or at least more consistent.  And like KCP, he takes the toughest guard matchup on defense every night to cover for Thomas.

If I'm Boston I'm trying to turn Thomas and that Nets pick into Butler.  Nothing against IT, but he presents a ton of problems on defense.  

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I almost included Bradley but do not follow the Celtics close enough to really know how important he is.  I do know enough though to know I am a big fan of Crowder.  That is kind of who I look at for what I hope Stanley Johnson can turn in to.  

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4 hours ago, DaBishop said:

Despite your criticism of the C's since before the season(and so far you've been monumentally wrong about how good they'd be) they are by no means doing it with smoke and mirrors. Thomas has grown into an All-NBA type player, their coaching has been terrific, and they are beating good teams convincingly (Utah, Houston, Toronto, LAC over the last 11 games). Horford has adapted to the 2nd option nicely and I think teams will pay a price in the playoffs if they start focusing solely on stopping IT. Stevens will have a plan for that. I think they're looking really good right now.

I really thought the C's would be a 4th seed in the craptastic EC, so kudos to them for having a good regular season so far.  They have been the second-best team in one of the worst Eastern Conferences I've seen since '80.  I do think that Toronto becomes better with the acquisition of Ibaka, though, even if Boston does finish with a better record.

Horford is averaging 14.8 PTS, his worst output since 09-10, and his REB, FG% and DRtg are at career-lows.  Not exactly great value for a max contract, unless you're in love with his 5 AST.

IT is having a banner year for sure, but I expect better teams to isolate the daylights out of him on defense and wear him down in the playoffs.  Not having a great rebounder will be a problem in the playoffs, I think, as well.

As for beating good teams convincingly, we'll see what happens after the AS break.  The season is far from over.

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18 hours ago, Hart said:

This is true to a certain extent but not a hard and fast rule.  Sheed was a knucklehead even when the Pistons were winning championships.  Cousins will be the same way if he is ever on a championship team.  Same with Dennis Rodman.  I agree with your Brady example...he would get killed for those actions if the Patriots were losers.  

But that's the thing, if they're winning titles we shut up, because that stuff doesn't really matter. SHeed was an issue because he was lazy and his production went up and down. DMC dominates every night, Butler dominates every night(on both ends). Rodman dominated every night. 

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18 hours ago, Hart said:

I love the Celtics core of Horford, Crowder, and Thomas.  Butler would actually be the perfect fit for them if they can land him without trading one of those three players and that would be a very dangerous team to Cleveland.  That said, I will always be bitter about the Celtics landing Garnett for Jefferson and some spare parts and changing the balance of power in the East when the Pistons were on top.  I hope they don't land Butler.    

I give Crowder if it gets me Butler though

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18 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Not sure Crowder is part of their core since most expect Brown to eventually replace him.

Bradley is part of their core tho and their best all around player.  Bradley is basically equal to KCP on defense and a better offensive player, or at least more consistent.  And like KCP, he takes the toughest guard matchup on defense every night to cover for Thomas.

If I'm Boston I'm trying to turn Thomas and that Nets pick into Butler.  Nothing against IT, but he presents a ton of problems on defense.  

Selling high on Thomas is very intriguing. Thomas and Brown maybe, that 17 pick is too valuable I think. Either way though

Fwiw, KCP is the 10th SG in RPM, Bradley 53rd. 

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14 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

I really thought the C's would be a 4th seed in the craptastic EC, so kudos to them for having a good regular season so far.  They have been the second-best team in one of the worst Eastern Conferences I've seen since '80.  I do think that Toronto becomes better with the acquisition of Ibaka, though, even if Boston does finish with a better record.

Horford is averaging 14.8 PTS, his worst output since 09-10, and his REB, FG% and DRtg are at career-lows.  Not exactly great value for a max contract, unless you're in love with his 5 AST.

IT is having a banner year for sure, but I expect better teams to isolate the daylights out of him on defense and wear him down in the playoffs.  Not having a great rebounder will be a problem in the playoffs, I think, as well.

As for beating good teams convincingly, we'll see what happens after the AS break.  The season is far from over.

This is the worst EC you've seen? The East has been bad for like 15-20 years, but I'd argue this years group is one of the better ones during that era, or at least more towards the middle. Those years with Kidd's nets and Iverson's 76ers etc.?

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6 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Selling high on Thomas is very intriguing. Thomas and Brown maybe, that 17 pick is too valuable I think. Either way though

Fwiw, KCP is the 10th SG in RPM, Bradley 53rd. 

I can't explain that RPM number at all.

Scores 18PPG on 40% from three, 51% from two.  Almost 7 RPG for a SG?  Plays some defense.

I don't get it.

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21 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

This is the worst EC you've seen? The East has been bad for like 15-20 years, but I'd argue this years group is one of the better ones during that era, or at least more towards the middle. Those years with Kidd's nets and Iverson's 76ers etc.?

Kidd's Nets was, certainly better than Iverson's Sixers.  That Sixers team was on par with a few of LBJ's Cavs team his first stay there.

I'll take Kidd/RJ/Martin/Kittles over IT2/Bradley/Horford/Crowder in a playoff series with no regrets.  That Nets team gave Detroit everything it wanted in the 04 ECF.

Perhaps the EC isn't the WORST I've ever seen, but it is among the worst for sure.  There is no way we will have an objective conversation about this because of our differing opinions of the quality of basketball today vs the past.  The rule changes, tanking practices and one-and-done have done the league a greater disservice in my eyes than in most others'.

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29 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I can't explain that RPM number at all.

Scores 18PPG on 40% from three, 51% from two.  Almost 7 RPG for a SG?  Plays some defense.

I don't get it.

Yah, me neither really. I think Bradley gets beat up a bit due to his size on defense and I'd guess Bradley isnt' guarded a lot of the time he isn't shooting corner 3s . That's off the cuff though. 

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3 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Kidd's Nets was, certainly better than Iverson's Sixers.  That Sixers team was on par with a few of LBJ's Cavs team his first stay there.

I'll take Kidd/RJ/Martin/Kittles over IT2/Bradley/Horford/Crowder in a playoff series with no regrets.  That Nets team gave Detroit everything it wanted in the 04 ECF.

Perhaps the EC isn't the WORST I've ever seen, but it is among the worst for sure.  There is no way we will have an objective conversation about this because of our differing opinions of the quality of basketball today vs the past.  The rule changes, tanking practices and one-and-done have done the league a greater disservice in my eyes than in most others'.

Yah, but that Nets team was the 1 seed. It was more the teams they faced. 

I didn't think your bias extended to the 2000s or that you considered it a particularly different era, or that this was even an overly controversial subject lol. Good luck I guess dude. 

Side note right quick, do you think tanking is new or different? Lol. 

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2 minutes ago, DaBishop said:

The east is better this year than last year, and was better last year then, then it was in the 3 previous years. to say it's the worst or even close is crazy. Heck, the year we won it the East was dreadful.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/04/nbas_western_conference_tops_e.html

Basically what I was thinking 

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This year vs last year standings at this time.

Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Cleveland Cavaliers (1)  39 16 .709 111.3 106.0 4.93
Boston Celtics (2)  37 19 .661 2.5 108.5 105.7 2.70
Washington Wizards (3)  33 21 .611 5.5 108.0 105.4 1.78
Toronto Raptors (4)  33 24 .579 7.0 108.5 104.3 3.83
Atlanta Hawks (5)  32 24 .571 7.5 103.8 104.3 -1.00
Indiana Pacers (6)  29 27 .518 10.5 105.6 106.3 -1.48
Chicago Bulls (7)  27 29 .482 12.5 102.1 102.8 -1.06
Detroit Pistons (8)  27 30 .474 13.0 101.2 101.7 -0.33
Milwaukee Bucks (9)  25 30 .455 14.0 105.7 105.4 -0.19
Miami Heat (10)  25 32 .439 15.0 101.5 102.5 -1.15
Charlotte Hornets (11)  24 32 .429 15.5 104.5 104.2 0.32
New York Knicks (12)  23 34 .404 17.0 106.1 109.2 -3.26
Philadelphia 76ers (13)  21 35 .375 18.5 101.2 106.8 -5.71
Orlando Magic (14)  21 37 .362 19.5 99.5 106.1 -6.43
Brooklyn Nets (15)  9 47 .161 30.5 105.5 114.2 -8.22
Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PW PL PS/G PA/G
Cleveland Cavaliers* 38 14 .731 36 16 102.9 96.9
Toronto Raptors* 35 17 .673 3 34 18 101.8 97.4
Miami Heat* 29 24 .547 9.5 26 27 96.0 96.3
Charlotte Hornets* 27 26 .509 11.5 29 24 102.1 100.9
Atlanta Hawks* 31 24 .564 8.5 33 22 102.4 99.7
Boston Celtics* 32 23 .582 7.5 35 20 105.7 101.5
Indiana Pacers* 28 25 .528 10.5 31 22 102.5 100.3
Detroit Pistons* 27 27 .500 12 29 25 101.8 101.0
Chicago Bulls 27 25 .519 11 25 27 101.2 101.9
Washington Wizards 23 28 .451 14.5 21 30 102.7 105.4
Orlando Magic 23 29 .442 15 23 29 99.4 100.8
Milwaukee Bucks 22 32 .407 17 18 36 98.1 102.9
New York Knicks 23 32 .418 16.5 23 32 99.1 101.3
Brooklyn Nets 14 40 .259 25 14 40 96.3 103.6
Philadelphia 76ers 8 45 .151 30.5 10 43 95.1 105.3

 

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

Yah, but that Nets team was the 1 seed. It was more the teams they faced. 

I didn't think your bias extended to the 2000s or that you considered it a particularly different era, or that this was even an overly controversial subject lol. Good luck I guess dude. 

Side note right quick, do you think tanking is new or different? Lol. 

The first time I remember a team tanking, noticeably, was the year the Spurs sat Admiral a reeeeaaallong time in order to put themselves in position to draft Duncan.  But if you can think of times when teams went out of their way like that--sitting a former MVP months longer then they had to--before, then be my guest to point it out.

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2 hours ago, DaBishop said:

The east is better this year than last year, and was better last year then, then it was in the 3 previous years. to say it's the worst or even close is crazy. Heck, the year we won it the East was dreadful.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/04/nbas_western_conference_tops_e.html

There's no way the east is better than last year.  Every team has regressed outside of Boston, Washington and Milwaukee to an extent, the bottom feeders are still bottom feeders.  Cleveland isn't quite as good as were last year either IMO, neither is Toronto.  The east is a dumpster fire.

I see the standings that Del posted shows that there isn't a big discrepancy between this season and last season to my surprise but it would take a hot second half from a lot of those teams to duplicate their success of last year.  I see 3 teams that make the playoffs finishing with a worse record than the Pistons did last season.

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The bottom of the East is 100% better then it was last year which has a lot to do with the lower records at the top.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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That's true but I see a lot of teams in the middle that just aren't as good this season.  Toronto, Atlanta, Indiana, Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit, Miami.

A conference that looked like it was on the rise has taken a step back because the meat of the conference isn't as juicy.

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Do we want completely bat **** crazy rumors from absolute nobodies?  

Someone is pushing a three team trade rumor between LA, DET, and ORL.  Jackson out, Lou Williams and Hezonja in for Detroit.

You know what, I'm not giving him the clicks he wants.  That was enough info.  Just know he isn't even in the media, he's a stock trader.  

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7 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Do we want completely bat **** crazy rumors from absolute nobodies?  

Someone is pushing a three team trade rumor between LA, DET, and ORL.  Jackson out, Lou Williams and Hezonja in for Detroit.

You know what, I'm not giving him the clicks he wants.  That was enough info.  Just know he isn't even in the media, he's a stock trader.  

Gamble up, SVG!  LOL.

Mario is a a boom or bust guy for sure.

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