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Deleterious

2017 Michigan Football

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9 hours ago, Buddha said:

Speight is just fine against Maryland, Rutgers and Michigan State.  When he faces real competition....not so hot.  Because he's an average QB at best.  Sometimes that's all you need if you have a great defense and running game, but I doubt Michigan has that this year.

Look, it's college football and you can catch lightning in a bottle (see Penn State at the end of last year) and win wome games you shouldn't win.  But this is really a 3-4 loss team.  The talent they have is too young for this year unless they get really lucky.

Next year should be their year.  Not this year.

This is about where I'm at, except for the 3-4 loss. Feels more like a solid 3 loss team talent wise. Good enough to have a chance in any game, but not so good that a win over a 7-5 type team is a sure thing. 

I really like opening against a team like Florida. We should get a pretty good idea about the potential of this team after this year. And even if they lose, the rest of the schedule sets up nicely enough that they will have a chance to improve. 

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Speight progressed fine until he got banged up at Iowa.  Even there, Michigan wins if his senior receivers make plays on balls that hit them in the hands.

Against OSU, the refs made national news for handing the game to the Buckeyes.

Against a red-hot FSU team Michigan sits their Heisman finalist.  If you missed that game, I am happy to re-post the pics I took of Speight getting pummeled by unchecked DE and LB all game to show you how bad his protection was on his blind side.  I also have a pic of Butt getting his ACL blown out. 

But yeah, that narrative that Speight can't compete against good competition is horsesht and I think we see him show it in Arlington. 

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For me, it's a 2-loss team. Maybe UF, UW, and PSU are better than that and it equates to 9-3, but 11-1 isn't out of the realm either.

Defensive talent and coaching is undeniable. They take a step down at CB and DL depth, but LBs will be better and Gary will probably be better than any DL that got drafted last year.

I think they match up well with Florida for a 1st game, I doubt their QB will be able to take much advantage of our young CBs, and Speight should be able to avoid turnovers and let the play-calling and the defense win.

Assuming that holds, we should be 6-0 heading into PSU, and 9-1 or 10-0 for UW and OSU.

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1 hour ago, mickeyb105 said:

Speight progressed fine until he got banged up at Iowa.  Even there, Michigan wins if his senior receivers make plays on balls that hit them in the hands.

Against OSU, the refs made national news for handing the game to the Buckeyes.

Against a red-hot FSU team Michigan sits their Heisman finalist.  If you missed that game, I am happy to re-post the pics I took of Speight getting pummeled by unchecked DE and LB all game to show you how bad his protection was on his blind side.  I also have a pic of Butt getting his ACL blown out. 

But yeah, that narrative that Speight can't compete against good competition is horsesht and I think we see him show it in Arlington. 

I think speight is a fine QB. But I don't think he is blameless for his performance against Iowa or even osu (when he was definitely banged up). The Iowa game is one where he should have done better prior to getting hurt. I guess it's possible he was hurt early in that game, but I don't remember that. Against OSU, he just seemed to make mistakes.

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I agree with Shelton -- this is a 3-4 loss team, with my bet on 4 losses not including the bowl game.  

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Here's what mgoblog had to say about that Iowa game. Just one man's opinion, but still. 

Was Speight hurt?

Probably not? Michigan did check him after their penultimate drive, when Speight took a shot to the shoulder from the crown of Jaleel Johnson's helmet. (Yes, targeting, no, I don't expect them to get it right.) Prior to that there didn't seem to be anything that would indicate Speight wasn't at full strength. He was clearly wounded after the last play, but the shoulder-checking period of our contest saw Speight throw once. 

Distant possibility: the Awuzie annihilation against Colorado did something and this is a chronic issue coming to the forefront for whatever reason. 

So he just decided that one third of the way through the Iowa game that he would suck.

Look, man, I clipped everything. The receivers did not catch the damn ball sometimes, but on many of those opportunities Speight made it more difficult for his WRs than was necessary.

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6 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

I agree with Shelton -- this is a 3-4 loss team, with my bet on 4 losses not including the bowl game.  

They have 8 patsies on the schedule tho, I really don't see 8-4 as much of a possibility. Only if Speight regresses significantly.

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7 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

I agree with Shelton -- this is a 3-4 loss team, with my bet on 4 losses not including the bowl game.  

Then you agree with Buddha. I'm fully on the 3 losses and only 3 losses train. 

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Just now, Shelton said:

Then you agree with Buddha. I'm fully on the 3 losses and only 3 losses train. 

I like agreeing with you better. ;)

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1 minute ago, Shelton said:

Here's what mgoblog had to say about that Iowa game. Just one man's opinion, but still. 

Was Speight hurt?

Probably not? Michigan did check him after their penultimate drive, when Speight took a shot to the shoulder from the crown of Jaleel Johnson's helmet. (Yes, targeting, no, I don't expect them to get it right.) Prior to that there didn't seem to be anything that would indicate Speight wasn't at full strength. He was clearly wounded after the last play, but the shoulder-checking period of our contest saw Speight throw once. 

Distant possibility: the Awuzie annihilation against Colorado did something and this is a chronic issue coming to the forefront for whatever reason. 

So he just decided that one third of the way through the Iowa game that he would suck.

Look, man, I clipped everything. The receivers did not catch the damn ball sometimes, but on many of those opportunities Speight made it more difficult for his WRs than was necessary.

Speight was horrible vs. Iowa and lost the game with 3 turnovers vs. OSU. For sure. I don't think that means he sucks in general tho. And even if he somehow does, Harbaugh is not shy about going to the backup.

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4 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Speight was horrible vs. Iowa and lost the game with 3 turnovers vs. OSU. For sure. I don't think that means he sucks in general tho. And even if he somehow does, Harbaugh is not shy about going to the backup.

I agree. I like speight and think he can be a very good QB. I was mostly only responding to mickey's take on speight (which he isn't shy about sharing over the past year). He insists that speight's injury cost us the Iowa game and that we win if darboh(?) makes that one catch late. While we probably would have won if that catch is made, that doesn't excuse the poor performance leading up to that point that allowed Iowa to stay close. 

Speight was bad in that game, and we should have never lost it.  

Im fine with excusing the osu performance. He was hurt. That affects things. I still think he should have been better despite the injury, but whatever. We were in that game despite speight's bad play. The officiating was bad. But we also got some luck, too. A better performance from the officials or a better performance from speight is probably enough. But speight was still bad. 

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Darboh and Chesson both had an opportunity to make a catch AT Iowa with the game on the line.  One let it go through his hands an the ball bounced off his midsection and the other had a ball taken out of his hands by the defensive back for an INT.  

Pretty tough for me to lay the entire game at Wilton's feet.  He didn't have a good game prior to getting banged up, but he threw two balls to his senior playmakers that were real catchable. 

With Cole kicking back out to LT I have a lot of confidence he'll keep Speight's uniform cleaner than it was last year. 

Four regular season losses?  Catastrophic injuries would have to happen. 

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4 hours ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

For me, it's a 2-loss team. Maybe UF, UW, and PSU are better than that and it equates to 9-3, but 11-1 isn't out of the realm either.

Defensive talent and coaching is undeniable. They take a step down at CB and DL depth, but LBs will be better and Gary will probably be better than any DL that got drafted last year.

I think they match up well with Florida for a 1st game, I doubt their QB will be able to take much advantage of our young CBs, and Speight should be able to avoid turnovers and let the play-calling and the defense win.

Assuming that holds, we should be 6-0 heading into PSU, and 9-1 or 10-0 for UW and OSU.

This is essentially how I see the season right here and now. 

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RS SO DB Keith Washington is transferring from Michigan, per Sam Webb of the Detroit News.

Washington was in the mix for a starting CB start until a few practices back, when he was moved to FS.  At 6'3 with 4.4 range speed, Washington is lanky but had potential as a Jeremy Clark-type of DB.  His request to transfer was a complete surprise to the staff.  By all accounts, Washington is a high-character/high GPA kid that Harbaugh took a flyer on late in recruiting in his first class.

My take is that the CB rotation is close to set, with Hill at one corner and Long/Watson/Thomas fighting for both the other CB and nickel spots . . . and Washington thought his ceiling was higher than Clark's.

Best of luck to him.

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On 8/23/2017 at 5:24 PM, mickeyb105 said:

Darboh and Chesson both had an opportunity to make a catch AT Iowa with the game on the line.  One let it go through his hands an the ball bounced off his midsection and the other had a ball taken out of his hands by the defensive back for an INT.  

Pretty tough for me to lay the entire game at Wilton's feet.  He didn't have a good game prior to getting banged up, but he threw two balls to his senior playmakers that were real catchable. 

With Cole kicking back out to LT I have a lot of confidence he'll keep Speight's uniform cleaner than it was last year. 

Four regular season losses?  Catastrophic injuries would have to happen. 

The "taken out of his hands" play was an awful throw that put the WR at a disadvantage at the least.

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Plus, no one is laying the blame solely on speight. The discussion, to me, seems to be whether or not speight was good in that game. I don't think he was. Just because a couple guys dropped the ball when there was a chance to salvage a win doesn't change that there was poor play leading up to that point. 

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

The "taken out of his hands" play was an awful throw that put the WR at a disadvantage at the least.

Awful?  The ball was in his hands.  Your senior playmaking WR needs to fight for that ball better than that.

Do you have excuse for the one that went completely through the hands and hit the WR (Darboh, I think) right on the belt?

Why is it too much to ask your senior WR to make plays for your SO quarterback?

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Plus, no one is laying the blame solely on speight. The discussion, to me, seems to be whether or not speight was good in that game. I don't think he was. Just because a couple guys dropped the ball when there was a chance to salvage a win doesn't change that there was poor play leading up to that point. 

Of course he wasn't good, but he delivered two catchable balls that hit our senior WR in the hands that were not caught with the game on the line.  I want my QB to be good with the game on the line, and he checked that box.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Of course he wasn't good, but he delivered two catchable balls that hit our senior WR in the hands that were not caught with the game on the line.  I want my QB to be good with the game on the line, and he checked that box.

I want my QB to play well during the other 50 minutes so the team isn't at the mercy of a dropped ball at the end. 

If you have two evenly matched teams playing a close game throughout, then by all means focus on the plays in crunch time and who stepped up and who didn't. 

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10 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I want my QB to play well during the other 50 minutes so the team isn't at the mercy of a dropped ball at the end. 

If you have two evenly matched teams playing a close game throughout, then by all means focus on the plays in crunch time and who stepped up and who didn't. 

As a team that lost three games by five points, I think it is OK to focus on the crunch-time plays that didn't go Michigan's way last season.  In fact, it's OK to focus on anything that could make Michigan a better football team this year.  Better QB play is certainly one of them, and there is little reason to think Speight won't show improvement this year under an NFL OC, and NFL position coach and a coach that was an AA QB who mentored one of the best QB in the NFL currently.

Getting better play from the left side of the line is way more important to me than worrying about Speight being bad this season.

Let's review the Orange Bowl, where his left side utterly failed him.

_DSC1743_DxO_DSC1745_DxO_DSC1377_DxO_DSC0844_DxO_DSC0653_DxO_DSC0868_DxO

Speight took shot after shot in that OB, and yet people still found a way to hang the loss on him.  The kid just kept getting back up and played through it all even though he was obviously hurt.  

Mason Cole kicking out to LT will help quite a bit IMO, while losing Smith might hurt.  Will the young receivers make plays when it counts this year if Speight has a bad game?  Who knows, but things were really bad by the end of last season with that OL.  Not 2008 bad, but bad.

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I'm not sure what the orange bowl has to do with whether he was good enough in the Iowa game. 

There also isn't anything wrong with focusing on a few plays here and there in games that were close. Obviously if those plays turned out differently the result of the game would be different. But none of that changes everything else that happened in the games from a performance standpoint. 

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To be clear, I like speight and I think he will be a very valuable piece this year. I also think he did a pretty good job last year overall. 

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14 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I'm not sure what the orange bowl has to do with whether he was good enough in the Iowa game. 

There also isn't anything wrong with focusing on a few plays here and there in games that were close. Obviously if those plays turned out differently the result of the game would be different. But none of that changes everything else that happened in the games from a performance standpoint. 

The Orange Bowl pics were for others on the thread.  Sometimes people need to see how bad a player got beat down in living color to appreciate it, giving that person the benefit of the doubt that maybe they've played a contact sport before.

The senior receivers came up short in the big games.  One catch for five yards for Darboh at Iowa, two catches for 30 for Chesson.  The last four games of the year, Chesson totaled just 84 yards and Darboh 121--just one TD between the two of them.

Speight threw for a total of 485 yards in three of those games, O'Korn 59.  Darboh and Chesson didn't step up like they needed to at the end of the year, and those isolated plays at Iowa is a testament to that.

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