Shinma

1/7/17. Lions at Seahawks. Wildcard weekend. 8:15pm

449 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Longgone said:

That is not a "fact" and you've shown nothing that shows that you understand the position. To me he's shown flashes of dominance and frustrating lapses, steady improvement, and has rare skills. He's definitely been immature, but if he works through that, you've really got something.

I think I've been pretty big about wait-for-it with Ebron, but this year was a pretty big let down for me. Year 3 and it seems to me like he still has yet to display these "rare skills". Honestly, IMO he looks slow, which is the most disappointing thing. 

That said, I still think he can be a good piece, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if they move on from him either. 

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10 minutes ago, hardyaf said:

I think I've been pretty big about wait-for-it with Ebron, but this year was a pretty big let down for me. Year 3 and it seems to me like he still has yet to display these "rare skills". Honestly, IMO he looks slow, which is the most disappointing thing. 

That said, I still think he can be a good piece, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if they move on from him either. 

He was a bit off after the knee, but that's to be expected, no? Still, 60 balls in 13 games is not easy. He made big strides technique-wise. He is ascending, but maybe not fast enough for some.

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Being as objective as we collectively can be on the subject, suppose the Lions roster were identical minus Ebron and Eric walked in off of the street.

Would you sign him at his cap hit?

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2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Pass rushers get paid. He might get the deal next year, but he's got one year left on his contract regardless. If you want value for him, it has to be this offseason. When's the last time you saw a guy on a franchise tag traded?

Agreed.  They need to re-sign him to a big contract asap.

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1 hour ago, Longgone said:

That is not a "fact" and you've shown nothing that shows that you understand the position. To me he's shown flashes of dominance and frustrating lapses, steady improvement, and has rare skills. He's definitely been immature, but if he works through that, you've really got something.

Blah blah blah…. Been listening to this Eric Ebron Myth for 3 straight years now. Still waiting for him to be anything other than an overpaid TE who doesn’t show up when it matters.

Waste of a 1st round pick

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57 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Being as objective as we collectively can be on the subject, suppose the Lions roster were identical minus Ebron and Eric walked in off of the street.

Would you sign him at his cap hit?

3.5 million or whatever? Absolutely. However, that's the way the NFL is set up. This is why I hate discussing Ebron (as I said in the Ebron thread). He is simultaneously worth the money he is being paid and a bust of a draft pick at the same time. It's the same argument over and over again and I don't really believe there is really any disagreement.  

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Being as objective as we collectively can be on the subject, suppose the Lions roster were identical minus Ebron and Eric walked in off of the street.

Would you sign him at his cap hit?

For this guy? No. (click the link in the block message)

 

 

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I wonder how many years we will continue to have the EXACT same Ebron discussion?

He is what he is at this point and there is very little in the first three years to suggest anything is going to change.

He makes the very occasional spectacular catch.

He drops passes/doesn't use his size/can't break away from defenders way too often for him to be considered an "elite" or even top 10 TE in the league.

He has maturity/diva issues where, as shown above, he simply quits on plays.

He can't and more than likely never will be able to block at even a "replacement" level to borrow baseball terms.

In total, as previously mentioned by others, he is worth keeping around but is also a huge bust at the #10 pick. As is, he would have been a valuable find in the fifth or sixth round and a decent return if drafted in the late third.

I know I haven't been posting at all in the last few months (largely due to a new job and some renovations I have going on) but to sum up my thoughts on the Lions season in one word is: disappointing.

There were two scenarios that I would have enjoyed:

1) The Lions finish 6-10 and fire Caldwell and could officially start the Quinn era free of past mistakes.

2) The Lions win the division/playoff game(s) and, because of such, keep Caldwell around (even though he is a poor coach)

What ended up happening is, IMO, the worst case scenario...we did just well enough (or got just lucky enough) for Quinn to warrant keeping Caldwell (who Martha "loves") but still managed to accomplish absolutely nothing of note.

The only real positive out of this season is Quinn made some decent moves (Decker, Glasgow, Killebrew, Boldin) and as such there is hope for a better future. One glaring negative from this season is realizing just how terrible Mayhew was...Tomlinson is a bust in year 2, Ebron is a bust, Carter a bust, Wright a bust, Diggs a bust, Van Noy a bust, etc...essentially outside of 2013 and 2009 we got next to no value out of Mayhew's drafts. The fact that up until the very end fans were defending him makes me feel sorry for the vast majority of Lions' fans as they are so blinded by their own fandom they can't see how bad their favorite team is.

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3 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Ebron can't catch is obviously hyperbole to a degree, but he does still have drop issues. They have been cleaned up a lot though. 

 

Nastradamus, he led the LEAGUE in drops for tight ends, and is 7th for all receivers in the NFL. He's been in the league three years now – It hasn't been cleaned up.

Okay so I'm with EchO – no more Ebron talk out of me. I'm done.

 

...By the way, of course it's hyperbole my friend. Hyperbole happens to be part of normal discourse ("I've been stuck in this traffic forever"). I'm not going to apologize for using it merely as a figure of speech. No one here should!

 

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31 minutes ago, EchO said:

I wonder how many years we will continue to have the EXACT same Ebron discussion?

He is what he is at this point and there is very little in the first three years to suggest anything is going to change.

He makes the very occasional spectacular catch.

He drops passes/doesn't use his size/can't break away from defenders way too often for him to be considered an "elite" or even top 10 TE in the league.

He has maturity/diva issues where, as shown above, he simply quits on plays.

He can't and more than likely never will be able to block at even a "replacement" level to borrow baseball terms.

In total, as previously mentioned by others, he is worth keeping around but is also a huge bust at the #10 pick. As is, he would have been a valuable find in the fifth or sixth round and a decent return if drafted in the late third.

I know I haven't been posting at all in the last few months (largely due to a new job and some renovations I have going on) but to sum up my thoughts on the Lions season in one word is: disappointing.

There were two scenarios that I would have enjoyed:

1) The Lions finish 6-10 and fire Caldwell and could officially start the Quinn era free of past mistakes.

2) The Lions win the division/playoff game(s) and, because of such, keep Caldwell around (even though he is a poor coach)

What ended up happening is, IMO, the worst case scenario...we did just well enough (or got just lucky enough) for Quinn to warrant keeping Caldwell (who Martha "loves") but still managed to accomplish absolutely nothing of note.

The only real positive out of this season is Quinn made some decent moves (Decker, Glasgow, Killebrew, Boldin) and as such there is hope for a better future. One glaring negative from this season is realizing just how terrible Mayhew was...Tomlinson is a bust in year 2, Ebron is a bust, Carter a bust, Wright a bust, Diggs a bust, Van Noy a bust, etc...essentially outside of 2013 and 2009 we got next to no value out of Mayhew's drafts. The fact that up until the very end fans were defending him makes me feel sorry for the vast majority of Lions' fans as they are so blinded by their own fandom they can't see how bad their favorite team is.

Well, I guess our hope then lies with Quinn putting two good drafts together and when Caldwell puts a mediocre season together again next year, we will have a solid talent base for a new coaching staff.  

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As far as Ebron goes

1 hour ago, number20 said:

Blah blah blah…. Been listening to this Eric Ebron Myth for 3 straight years now. Still waiting for him to be anything other than an overpaid TE who doesn’t show up when it matters.

Waste of a 1st round pick

Is anybody trying to justify Ebron as a first round pick anymore?  I think the argument for Ebron at this point is we keep him unless we can trade him for a decent draft pick.  He was the 27th highest paid tight end this year so I don't think we can say he is grossly overpaid, especially given his age and fact he is still likely to get a bit better yet.   Is he a first round bust? Sure.  But we are past the point now where that matters and the question is what to do with the tight end position next year.  If we can trade Ebron for Jake ****, I would do it in a heartbeat.  But otherwise, we might as well keep him one more year, maybe take a flyer on a tight end later in the draft and/or sign a veteran, and then deal with the tight end position further down the road when his contract is up. Unless he is a cancer and needs to go now, which I am not convinced is the case.  

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3 hours ago, number20 said:

Nastradamus, he led the LEAGUE in drops for tight ends, and is 7th for all receivers in the NFL. He's been in the league three years now – It hasn't been cleaned up.

Okay so I'm with EchO – no more Ebron talk out of me. I'm done.

 

...By the way, of course it's hyperbole my friend. Hyperbole happens to be part of normal discourse ("I've been stuck in this traffic forever"). I'm not going to apologize for using it merely as a figure of speech. No one here should!

 

He had 7 on 61 catches. Jimmy Graham had 4. Yes, he needs to clean it up, but it's not the huge deal you are making it out to be.

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I heard that the average margin of victory in the wild card round was 19 points. At least the Lions weren't the only team blown out. And the Giants got blown out even worse.

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The sad part about ebron is that after the lions spent big money on golden tate and marvin jones and over-drafted ebron they STILL need a wide receiver.

In fact, their best wide receiver plays running back. Who they took with a fifth round pick?  

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As much of a disappointment as ansah was this year, you have to pay him.  If you dont someone else will.

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20 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Being as objective as we collectively can be on the subject, suppose the Lions roster were identical minus Ebron and Eric walked in off of the street.

Would you sign him at his cap hit?

Better question is whether you'd trade say, a 3rd and a 6th for him. 

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20 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

Agreed.  They need to re-sign him to a big contract asap.

Its fine if they do, but rigid, traditional thinking probably won't be what wins us a Super Bowl either. 

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18 hours ago, number20 said:

Nastradamus, he led the LEAGUE in drops for tight ends, and is 7th for all receivers in the NFL. He's been in the league three years now – It hasn't been cleaned up.

Okay so I'm with EchO – no more Ebron talk out of me. I'm done.

 

...By the way, of course it's hyperbole my friend. Hyperbole happens to be part of normal discourse ("I've been stuck in this traffic forever"). I'm not going to apologize for using it merely as a figure of speech. No one here should!

 

His drop rate declined each year, though I didn't look after week 6 or so this year. That's improvement , even if he's still not good. I wasn't defending him, but there's no reason to be dishonest about it

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13 hours ago, Buddha said:

The sad part about ebron is that after the lions spent big money on golden tate and marvin jones and over-drafted ebron they STILL need a wide receiver.

In fact, their best wide receiver plays running back. Who they took with a fifth round pick?  

We probably have enough weapons if we run the ball at all. I'd look at LG, RT,blocking TE and possibly RB as ways to improve our offense. Depth of course helps too. Not saying a WR couldn't be used though, and you have to hope Marvin Jones finds more of a comfort level in year 2. 

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13 hours ago, Buddha said:

As much of a disappointment as ansah was this year, you have to pay him.  If you dont someone else will.

There's no price you'd trade him for?

Just sayin', you could easily say the same of Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins. Both are ELITE players at their positions

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6 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

There's no price you'd trade him for?

Just sayin', you could easily say the same of Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins. Both are ELITE players at their positions

The lions are desperate for a pass rushing de.  Do you deal the best one you have? Thats another hole you have to fill.

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Waiting for Ebron to break out is the lions version of Bonderman developing a changeup.

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Did a great job for 2016 Lions. Hope for better in 2017! Nothing to be ashamed about.

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16 hours ago, Buddha said:

The lions are desperate for a pass rushing de.  Do you deal the best one you have? Thats another hole you have to fill.

Just to be clear, I did not ever say that we should trade him or that I would. Its just a route I could see Quinn going based on his Patriot background. If you get a first and maybe a young DL(Matt Judon! haha), you probably consider it. In that scenario you draft a DE in the first and probably sign another in FA. In the end you could end up turning one DL into 3-4 due to the assets received and the 20 mil per year that you don't have to spend against your cap. Whats his actual trade value though? I have no idea. 

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