Jump to content

Tigeraholic1

Jim Caldwell to return next year

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I was speaking more from the fan perspective, but yes, the decision should be based on who you think will do the best job next year.

The other thing I would add is Martha reportedly loves Caldwell as a coach.

Politically, Quinn bears a huge risk firing Jim, especially if Quinn thinks the team will likely do worse next year based on the expected roster, even with a better coach.

For anyone who wanted Caldwell gone before this season, this season played out as poorly as they could hope WRT Jim getting fired.  Team over-performs and has a lot of things fall their way that make them look a lot better than they actually are.  A new coach is not likely to outperform 9-7 next year unless they draft really well and/or Matt takes yet another step forward.

Who knows what the roster will look like next year.  But I suspect Quinn will improve on it.  The expectations should be better that 9-7 next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NYLion said:

I think Levy is done as an impact player. 

I think they really missed Riddick though not only as a runner but as a safety outlet for Stafford.  For instance, two of his INT's against the Cowboys were due to him scrambling around for a good 5 seconds and not being able to find an open receiver.  Having Riddick available could have made a difference there.  Stafford's finger seemed to be affecting him too the last few weeks, he was airmailing balls left and right and I know that he was playing against better teams but some of those poor throws were made with minimal pressure on him.

Regardless, I think most of us can agree that the talent is lacking especially on defense.

Regardless on Levy, we certainly hoped that entering the season he was not done as an impact player. He has graded as our best LB, IIRC, in each of the games he has played in this season, so that says a little something to me. 

Agreed on Riddick. 

Talent is lacking on D though yes, especially the DL. The back 7 isn't special, but its probably good enough if your pass rush is a plus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, T&P_Fan said:

They didn't back into the playoffs.  They weren't favored in any of the last 3 games and Stafford broke his finger. 

While I don't think Stafford's finger really mattered, I agree with the opening statement. Especially with the other key injuries. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Regardless on Levy, we certainly hoped that entering the season he was not done as an impact player. He has graded as our best LB, IIRC, in each of the games he has played in this season, so that says a little something to me. 

Just another reason not to trust any advanced football stats.  It's obvious levy is a shell of himself.  Has hasn't made one impact play since he has been back and continually misses the cap he should be covering. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Just another reason not to trust any advanced football stats.  It's obvious levy is a shell of himself.  Has hasn't made one impact play since he has been back and continually misses the cap he should be covering. 

Its fun to talk about how stats are so untrustworthy(which they aren't), but odds are the guy who sat down and watched every single play while only focusing on Levy saw things a little more clearly than the fan watching the game live with a 6 pack in him. JMO tho.......

and "our best LB" does not equate to being what he was ftr. Our LBs suck. Also though, he's not really here for his big plays. His value is his coverage and tackling IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Its fun to talk about how stats are so untrustworthy(which they aren't), but odds are the guy who sat down and watched every single play while only focusing on Levy saw things a little more clearly than the fan watching the game live with a 6 pack in him. JMO tho.......

and "our best LB" does not equate to being what he was ftr. Our LBs suck. Also though, he's not really here for his big plays. His value is his coverage and tackling IMO. 

Honestly, I don't trust the guy sitting down and watching every play.  The same way I don't trust the opinion of so called experts. All the experts and stats folks said the lions would win 4 games.  There is enough collective knowledge on this board that it makes the stats pretty useless.  This is an NFL specific complaint at the moment.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Levy was indeed a shell.  He made no real plays and was not really involved in the defense from a play making stand point.  I do not think he was the best line backer on our team when he was on the field, but I usually do not watch the games more than once anymore.

One of these days I am hoping a simple, clean technology will exist that shows every defensive/offensive snap back to back to back.  Watch the entirety of the defensive plays in like 4 minutes.  Break that down with a camera on each specific player and you are looking at less than an hour of watching to see every play from every defensive player from a game.

Even with that we would not have as much info as the guys calling the plays.  Guys have certain places they are SUPPOSED to be in certain play calls...even if it LOOKS like he is out of position, he may very well be exactly where the d coordinator wanted him.

If you have that ability (to see every play from every player back to back to back) AND you have the play call for that play and the playbook to know the play you have something...and I am sure that is exactly what the coordinators have every week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Honestly, I don't trust the guy sitting down and watching every play.  The same way I don't trust the opinion of so called experts. All the experts and stats folks said the lions would win 4 games.  There is enough collective knowledge on this board that it makes the stats pretty useless.  This is an NFL specific complaint at the moment.  

Ever since Bynes and then Levy it appears that we've been less vulnerable up the middle. He's been graded in the 70s as compared to 90ish in 2014, for a little perspective. Our LBs are that bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

Who knows what the roster will look like next year.  But I suspect Quinn will improve on it.  The expectations should be better that 9-7 next year. 

I am speaking to the hypothetical of Quinn wanting to bring in his own coaches.

He will burn political capital to do it and knows it will look really bad if the team underperforms 2016.

So he would need to make an assumption about what the roster would reasonably look like and make his best guess as to how the team would likely perform under the new coach to see if the risk is worth it.

I would suggest that it is a consideration when a new GM is considering firing a coach he knows the owner favors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm pissing people off with stats

Roberts was PFF's honroable mention for all pro as specifically a kick returner 

He was 8th in the NFL in ypa on KRs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I'm pissing people off with stats

Roberts was PFF's honroable mention for all pro as specifically a kick returner 

He was 8th in the NFL in ypa on KRs

He has two punts returned for TDs, so he's somewhat elusive. But not enough to justify taking the ball out of the end zone on kickoffs.

He doesn't seem to realize that the NFL has changed the kick return game. He may be the 8th best in YPA on kicks returned, but if that YPA is less than 25 he's hurting the team.

Incidentally, ESPN has the Lions as a team at #13, with average YPA of 22.7. With the new rule of taking possession at the 25, take the knee.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Here is my take.

Guys who want him fired now wanted him fired before the season.There really isn't much cause to fire him based on this season.  The Lions over-performed their talent this season.

 

So, for me, if someone was ok with him coaching this season for whatever reason, they really ought to be ok with him continuing to coach because:

a. I don't think anything happened this year to demonstrate anything about his coaching that wasn't already known, and

b. performance really wasn't an issue given the roster.

I have to agree. I always judge a football coach on results he gets with the talent level on the roster. Really good coaches get better results with less talent than a poor coach would. But I also see his staying as part of the process in our rebuilding. In my opinion, he is fine for now. But no way the coach I want once the talent lever is vastly improved. I guess we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, John_Brian_K said:

Levy was indeed a shell.  He made no real plays and was not really involved in the defense from a play making stand point.  I do not think he was the best line backer on our team when he was on the field, but I usually do not watch the games more than once anymore.

One of these days I am hoping a simple, clean technology will exist that shows every defensive/offensive snap back to back to back.  Watch the entirety of the defensive plays in like 4 minutes.  Break that down with a camera on each specific player and you are looking at less than an hour of watching to see every play from every defensive player from a game.

Even with that we would not have as much info as the guys calling the plays.  Guys have certain places they are SUPPOSED to be in certain play calls...even if it LOOKS like he is out of position, he may very well be exactly where the d coordinator wanted him.

If you have that ability (to see every play from every player back to back to back) AND you have the play call for that play and the playbook to know the play you have something...and I am sure that is exactly what the coordinators have every week.

You would need to see all 11 players instead of isolating a certain player. You would need the full perspective. Also, personnel changes on downs would show even more players, depending on the scheme. But I'm sure this is done with coaches tapes now. Wish we could see them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this is what would happen, especially because Quinn comes from the "Patriot Way".  Quinn does not strike me as a guy who looks to make a big splash & worries about the public relations aspects of his job or the coach's job.  Did the players improve?  I think you can make a case for that, especially given the injuries & the number of rookies that played a significant amount.  Increasing the talent level is the most important aspect of Quinn's job, & if he continues to do that then I think Caldwell is a capable coach.  The key is going to be keeping the assistants, or replacing them with the right guys if they leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jason_R said:

He has two punts returned for TDs, so he's somewhat elusive. But not enough to justify taking the ball out of the end zone on kickoffs.

He doesn't seem to realize that the NFL has changed the kick return game. He may be the 8th best in YPA on kicks returned, but if that YPA is less than 25 he's hurting the team.

Incidentally, ESPN has the Lions as a team at #13, with average YPA of 22.7. With the new rule of taking possession at the 25, take the knee.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense

We're 27th in attempts fwiw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

You would need to see all 11 players instead of isolating a certain player. You would need the full perspective. Also, personnel changes on downs would show even more players, depending on the scheme. But I'm sure this is done with coaches tapes now. Wish we could see them. 

It would be cool.  The isolation would be just so you could focus in on them after seeing the entire play.  Hustle etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

While I'm pissing people off with stats

Roberts was PFF's honroable mention for all pro as specifically a kick returner 

He was 8th in the NFL in ypa on KRs

This makes perfect sense, I suspect he had a lot of 25-30 yard returns that ended with the ball at the 20-25 yard line.

Heck, even the numerous times he got stuffed at the 12-15, that was usually a 20 yard return. 22.7 is definitely not a good number there.

As for Levy, the other linebackers just suck that bad. Bynes is decent, but Whitehead took a massive step back and the Antoine Williams, Kyle Van Noy, etc spots were hilariously overmatched players who shouldn't be seen outside of special teams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

This makes perfect sense, I suspect he had a lot of 25-30 yard returns that ended with the ball at the 20-25 yard line.

Heck, even the numerous times he got stuffed at the 12-15, that was usually a 20 yard return. 22.7 is definitely not a good number there.

this. more than once watching a Lions game the thought was forced to my mind that someone forgot to tell Roberts they changed the ball placement after a touchback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So the impression is while he had a good average, he had poor discretion on when to go?

The analytical side of that always interested me. Is it worth giving up 5-10 yards in field position for the opportunity for a big play?

Kick and punt returns are almost like a free play, in that it will always be 1st and 10 (unless you fumble).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

So the impression is while he had a good average, he had poor discretion on when to go?

Though again, we were 6th from the bottom in amount of returns, so I suspect he downed it more than people realize and the ones that he didn't down left a bit more of an emotional mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, pyrotigers said:

 

As for Levy, the other linebackers just suck that bad. Bynes is decent, but Whitehead took a massive step back and the Antoine Williams, Kyle Van Noy, etc spots were hilariously overmatched players who shouldn't be seen outside of special teams

This was my only point fwiw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Though again, we were 6th from the bottom in amount of returns, so I suspect he downed it more than people realize and the ones that he didn't down left a bit more of an emotional mark

He did get better over the course of the season. But in a few games, after falling behind, he got amped up and took one out that he shouldn't have, and cost the team 5-10 yards.

When your gameplan is to win the battle of field position - as was the case this year for the Lions - you can't afford to be starting inside the 15.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      95,482
    • Total Posts
      2,718,535
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×