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Shinma

12/18/16. Lions at Giants. 1:05pm, FOX. Week 15.

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12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Here's a question: if they miss the playoffs, does quinn fire caldwell?

Undoubtedly right?  I don't think Caldwell can keep his job if they lose the final 3 games and miss the playoffs. 

Say the Lions lose the next two, but everything goes right and they get in at 9-7.  If they lose the wildcard game and finish with 4 straight losses, then I would predict that Caldwell gets fired as well.  Only way Caldwell keeps his is if he wins the division or a playoff game from the wildcard spot.

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4 minutes ago, number20 said:

Would love to see Caldwell go regardless of what happens

 

If they win the division you can't fire him. 

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42 minutes ago, Buddha said:

I think quinn has done a good job of building depth.  As has been said, they have a lot of "ok" guys that havent been terrible.  Especially on the dline.  Unfortunately the guys they were counting on the be stars - levy and ansah - havent played or have played injured.

I just think they need some speed.  I feel like cruzer.

The best thing for the lions is they have a good qb.  Honestly, thats what separates them from a team like chicago or minnesota right now and is the only reason theyre a 9 win team and not a 5 win team.

Here's a question: if they miss the playoffs, does quinn fire caldwell?

Yup, dead on .

I'd guess no, as I think its clear the team has played above its talent. We're like 13th in offensive DVOA, 31st defensively(top 5 STs tho!). We lost Calvin, we got nothing from Ansah and Levy as you noted, we never replaced Suh and the Abdullah injury was rather crippling, as the Riddick injury has been the last few games as well. He has the guys behind them, they're playing above their heads, they're focused , especially in key situations and he's been great for Stafford. I think you have to bring him back.Firing him for not beating 2-3 teams that are clearly better than us on paper is silly IMO. 

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I think the Caldwell decision is a tough one. I don't think he's a great coach, but I do think he is a competent coach. A lot depends on how Quinn views the actual talent level of the team. If he thinks the talent was mediocre, then going 9-7 and basically being a .500 team seems like Caldwell would have done a sufficient job. If he thinks the team is garbage then Caldwell did a very good job. If he thinks the team is actually good, then I think Caldwell is probably fired regardless of how the season plays out (unless they go on a playoff run and reach the NFC championship game).

to date, we really haven't seen the team play very impressively in any game. The last minute victories are exciting but they also point to a team that didn't play well enough to avoid being in that position. 

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18 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I think the Caldwell decision is a tough one. I don't think he's a great coach, but I do think he is a competent coach. A lot depends on how Quinn views the actual talent level of the team. If he thinks the talent was mediocre, then going 9-7 and basically being a .500 team seems like Caldwell would have done a sufficient job. If he thinks the team is garbage then Caldwell did a very good job. If he thinks the team is actually good, then I think Caldwell is probably fired regardless of how the season plays out (unless they go on a playoff run and reach the NFC championship game).

to date, we really haven't seen the team play very impressively in any game. The last minute victories are exciting but they also point to a team that didn't play well enough to avoid being in that position. 

New Oreans I'd say was pretty impressive. Just that one though. Winning one of the next two would certainly qualify. My faith level is low though. 

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Just now, Nastradamus said:

New Oreans I'd say was pretty impressive. Just that one though. Winning one of the next two would certainly qualify. My faith level is low though. 

NYG are a good team and the Lions were 2 Stafford throws where he played it a little safe from having 2 early TDs. I was actually impressed how well they played, and I don't think they're going to have a significantly tougher opponent the rest of the way.

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I also think on the Caldwell front that consistency in our coaching and systems is an advantage we are beginning to gain on many teams. 

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33 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

I also think on the Caldwell front that consistency in our coaching and systems is an advantage we are beginning to gain on many teams. 

Oh my god.

Get RID of him. ABC – Anyone But Caldwell. He blows as a HC. Blows

 

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I don't like Caldwell, but I think he's fine as long as your coordinators are doing a solid job. When he's saddled with a Lombardi or if they were to have to hire a new DC not so much

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48 minutes ago, number20 said:

Oh my god.

Get RID of him. ABC – Anyone But Caldwell. He blows as a HC. Blows

 

At least I don't have the worst takes anymore.  Yikes. 

 

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3 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

At least I don't have the worst takes anymore.  Yikes. 

 

You just did.

C'mon TP. You can't be serious. Caldwell? He's the long-term answer for the Lions?

Forgive me for my mid-week rant, but after 3 seasons I've seen enough of this guy. Tired of his overly conservative coaching, game management blunders, lack of self accountability during pressers, timidness with referees, shaking in his stone cold feet with taking risks... the list goes on. Not throwing that challenge flag last week – there are no words to describe how perfectly emblematic it was. Completely sums up Caldwell. He's even turning Cooter into a zombie. So be a Caldwell apologist all you want. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt all year, but I'm done with him. He blows.

I wanted him gone last year. Mostly because this franchise, for whatever reason, just refuses to clean house whenever a total purge is desperately needed. Get rid of Millen, but replace him with his #1. Fire Schwartz but keep Mayhew. Fire Mayhew but keep Caldwell.

At the start of the season a lot of people here said give him another year. So let him finish the season – then broom him, playoffs or not. Perfect time to do it. Austin likely won't be back next year.

Completely give Quinn the keys to this team, let him bring in all his own guys. Let him do it

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Oh my god.

Get RID of him. ABC – Anyone But Caldwell. He blows as a HC. Blows

 

Careful what you wish for. Your list would allow Rod Marinelli. Chip Kelly. Jeff Fisher.

I agree with your frustration over Caldwell's timidity with officials. But I think the conservatism of the offense has kept them from making mistakes that would have put them in deep holes last season. And the players believe in him. The team could do much, much worse.

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Careful what you wish for. Your list would allow Rod Marinelli. Chip Kelly. Jeff Fisher.

I agree with your frustration over Caldwell's timidity with officials. But I think the conservatism of the offense has kept them from making mistakes that would have put them in deep holes last season. And the players believe in him. The team could do much, much worse.

Except when they make a single mistake they're unable to recover from it. It's asking to play too perfect a game. Allowing your opponent to stay close the entire contest, by design, just so you can drop to your knees in the 4th quarter and pray your QB pulls off a miracle – I don't believe this has been working as much as they've been simply getting away with it. 

Do i give Caldwell credit for 9 wins? Of course I do. But I also think they've won in spite of him. Last season everyone said he was clueless. Then later in the year, he's no longer clueless. But wait, earlier this season he's clueless again. Fire Caldwell, fire Caldwell. And now he's not. Again. If the Lions drop the next two games and miss the playoffs we're back to Clueless Caldwell. So which is it? I'm not riding this silly train. I heard a lot of the same about Schwartz when people started calling for his head (How can you say that? He took the Lions to the playoffs, blah blah). I'm shedding my short term memory and trying to look at this whole thing. I'm not buying into it at all. The entire regime needs to go. Yes, with a surprising 9-5 record, I'll be the lone contrarian here and call it now. Let Quinn bring in his own people in the offseason. I'm convinced he knows what he's doing. "Thank you Mr. Caldwell. Very nice job. But our organization has decided to go in a different direction. We wish you well." Happens all the time in professional sports. The players will survive the change. They always do

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11 hours ago, number20 said:

Except when they make a single mistake they're unable to recover from it. It's asking to play too perfect a game. Allowing your opponent to stay close the entire contest, by design, just so you can drop to your knees in the 4th quarter and pray your QB pulls off a miracle – I don't believe this has been working as much as they've been simply getting away with it. 

Do i give Caldwell credit for 9 wins? Of course I do. But I also think they've won in spite of him. Last season everyone said he was clueless. Then later in the year, he's no longer clueless. But wait, earlier this season he's clueless again. Fire Caldwell, fire Caldwell. And now he's not. Again. If the Lions drop the next two games and miss the playoffs we're back to Clueless Caldwell. So which is it? I'm not riding this silly train. I heard a lot of the same about Schwartz when people started calling for his head (How can you say that? He took the Lions to the playoffs, blah blah). I'm shedding my short term memory and trying to look at this whole thing. I'm not buying into it at all. The entire regime needs to go. Yes, with a surprising 9-5 record, I'll be the lone contrarian here and call it now. Let Quinn bring in his own people in the offseason. I'm convinced he knows what he's doing. "Thank you Mr. Caldwell. Very nice job. But our organization has decided to go in a different direction. We wish you well." Happens all the time in professional sports. The players will survive the change. They always do

He's going to have 2 winning records and a 7-9 season. Sorry, that just doesn't scream firing to me. 

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12 hours ago, number20 said:

Except when they make a single mistake they're unable to recover from it. It's asking to play too perfect a game. Allowing your opponent to stay close the entire contest, by design, just so you can drop to your knees in the 4th quarter and pray your QB pulls off a miracle – I don't believe this has been working as much as they've been simply getting away with it. 

Do i give Caldwell credit for 9 wins? Of course I do. But I also think they've won in spite of him. Last season everyone said he was clueless. Then later in the year, he's no longer clueless. But wait, earlier this season he's clueless again. Fire Caldwell, fire Caldwell. And now he's not. Again. If the Lions drop the next two games and miss the playoffs we're back to Clueless Caldwell. So which is it? I'm not riding this silly train. I heard a lot of the same about Schwartz when people started calling for his head (How can you say that? He took the Lions to the playoffs, blah blah). I'm shedding my short term memory and trying to look at this whole thing. I'm not buying into it at all. The entire regime needs to go. Yes, with a surprising 9-5 record, I'll be the lone contrarian here and call it now. Let Quinn bring in his own people in the offseason. I'm convinced he knows what he's doing. "Thank you Mr. Caldwell. Very nice job. But our organization has decided to go in a different direction. We wish you well." Happens all the time in professional sports. The players will survive the change. They always do

I don't think they have won in spite of him at all.  Just the opposite.  They win because they don't make a lot of foolish plays that cost teams games, see Jim Schwartz.  Caldwell is in the top half of current NFL coaches.  And he has a winning record in 3 years with the Lions.   And if we lose the next two games, it isn't because of "clueless Caldwell" it's because we played 3 good teams and lost.  And in the NFL you get fired in a scenario where you lose your last 3 games, contract is up and a new GM came in last season. 

The NFL is littered with awful coaches, Caldwell simply isn't one of them.  Caldwell has improved as this season has gone along as well.  He has been more aggressive, and really there are only a handful of calls in the last 3 months I would question, and even those were 50/50.  I can't imagine you watch much NFL outside of the Lions, because it's painfully obvious how bad the coaches are. 

3 years ago everyone and their brother wanted Ken Wisenhunt, is he even in the league anymore after being ousted by the Titans?  Who is available to coach? 

Current coaches I would take over Caldwell: Belichick, Pete Carrol,  Del Rio and Andy Reid.  That's it, and Reid is questionable.  Outside of that, which coordinators are you wanting to give a first shot to?  Likely McDaniels goes to LA.  Another patriots coordinator?  If the Lions make the playoffs give Caldwell an extension.  If they don't, I assume he will be let go, because that is the way the NFL works.  But I wouldn't hate keeping him. 

Other options I can think of, Kyle Shannahan, Mike Shannahan (no to both), Jeff Fisher (no 1 million times), perhaps chip Kelly after he is fired in SF. 

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Except when they make a single mistake they're unable to recover from it. It's asking to play too perfect a game. Allowing your opponent to stay close the entire contest, by design, just so you can drop to your knees in the 4th quarter and pray your QB pulls off a miracle – I don't believe this has been working as much as they've been simply getting away with it.

You are assuming this offense is capable of blowing out its opponents. It is not.

Cooter gets grief for calling too many 1st down runs that go nowhere. If they went for four or five yards, though, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That kind of a running game, coupled with Stafford's accuracy on short and medium routes, would be a recipe for moving the chains and putting points on the board. The problem is we have a poor run-blocking team, and a thin stable of backs. (Maybe if Tate had blocked the man who caused Zenner's fumble, the team would be 10-4 now.)

So instead, do you propose to drop Stafford back 45 times a game? That puts you in a position of fending off every team's most aggressive pass rush, and making the inevitable mistakes - INTs, sacks, strip sacks - that give your opponent easy points. This was the strategy, by the way, that turned Stafford into the NFL's best ever... at coming from behind. Not sure I want to return to it now that his HOF security blanket WR has retired.

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15 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

Well I'd take Kelly......

Chip Kelly?   Seriously? 

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