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2016-17 Michigan Basketball GDT

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Every time shelton says the ship is righted, michigan reminds everyone whats wrong with them: soft, dont play defense.

Michigan used to have an upper echelon bball team every year pre-fab five scandal.  That freaked the school out so much they just stopped competing for top recruits.

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5 hours ago, Shelton said:

I'm mostly impressed that you continue to watch this team with regularity. 

I watched the Pistons game yesterday too. Watching that much bad basketball in one day should qualify me for long term disability.

Zak Irvin in the past two games vs Michigan's biggest rivals: 2-18, 5 points, 6 turnovers

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On 2/4/2017 at 8:30 PM, pyrotigers said:

Zak Irvin sucks and Michigan loses to an awful OSU team at home

I had the DVR set to record the game.  Play the recording and then find that the programming had been changed, its Chris Berman balthering on about the Super Bowl.  Even when Ohio State wins I lose.  :dead:

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On 2/5/2017 at 11:58 AM, Buddha said:

Every time shelton says the ship is righted, michigan reminds everyone whats wrong with them: soft, dont play defense.

Michigan used to have an upper echelon bball team every year pre-fab five scandal.  That freaked the school out so much they just stopped competing for top recruits.

Yah, they had an interesting 10-15 year run

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This team definitely feels like it is in the middle of a transition. It is irvin and walton's team and they just aren't good enough. But they will be gone next year. 

I think next year is important. If the team misses the tournament this year and next, I don't see how you can keep beilein around after that. That would be four straight sub par years. 

I don't think Michigan is scared of going after top recruits. I just think beilein doesn't really target them. It could be the thing that ultimately costs him his job. 

On the other hand, most teams go through these cycles. It's rare to have a team that is consistently good, but you can't spend too long in the down portion of the cycle. 

I think Michigan has a chance here to make a change, though. If they move on from beilein, they will be able to bring in a good coach, and the Michigan brand has improved enough over the past decade that they should be able to have some success bringing in better players. 

Season is basically on the line tomorrow night at home against MSU. They couldn't afford many slip ups and they just had one against OSU. 

They have eight games left and need to go at least 5-3 to get them to 9-9 in the conference. 

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He went for a lot of bigger recruits pretty hard actually.  He basically spent all his recruiting energy(allegedly) on a few top guys each year and missed on all of them. Kennard is the only one I can think of by name in the moment. 

 

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Yeah, it's not like he ignores five star recruits, but he has described their recruiting practices as being pretty strict about what they do. I don't know what the answer is. Some of it has just been guys that didn't pan out. Irvin was highly rated. Chatman was too. 

So maybe it's not his philosophy but more some bad luck. Who knows. 

The tyus battle thing kind of screwed them.

Next year is a big year, I think, but it's definitely concerning that the current freshman haven't gotten it done this year. 

What is the starting five going to be? Wagner Wilson Simpson rahkman Kentucky transfer? Maybe that will be good enough if the new guys can fill out the rotation. 

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On 2/6/2017 at 11:55 AM, Nastradamus said:

Yah, they had an interesting 10-15 year run

A 10-15 year run when they were good?  Michigan was good almost every year until the fab five scandal.  They were in multiple final fours in the 60s, had a final four run in the 70s, were in the tourney almost every year under frieder (and almost always seemed to get upset) and then finally broke through under fisher when they sent multiple players to the pros every season.

Michigan has a great bball tradition that was scarred by one massive scandal.  Then thet panicked and tried to hire any "clean coach" they could find, finally settling on squeaky clean john beilein.

Contrast that to football where jim harbaugh bends every rule he can.

I think the utter filthiness of bball recruiting makes football recruiting look legit by comparison.  I dont think michigan has the stomach for it.  Beilein's only great team came with a bunch of 3 star kids he got in early on who improved and became 4 and 5 star kids.  And mcgary who was a weird duck.  They've missed or havent even tried to get other 5 stars who continually pass them up for other dirty programs like kentucky or syracuse or duke.

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Or maybe its because they lost mel farr? The guy who always supplied cars to michigan players?  

That their parents paid for im sure...

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I'm just trying to get an idea of the type of program that Michigan could reasonably aspire to. They will never be Kentucky or duke or Kansas. They would probably be able to be MSU but MSU has built a brand during the Izzo era that is impossible to match. 

But why can't they be ND, Wisconsin, Purdue, or even Indiana? Wisconsin seems like an anomaly, but these others have gone through down periods, too. So maybe Michigan isn't that far away?

In reality, I think they are pretty far away. The shine of the Burke and stauskas teams is still slightly there, but not for long.

Beilein isn't willing to do anything even bordering on dirty. He waits to offer young players. He won't oversign even though there is always going to be attrition. That stuff sounds great in an interview but it doesn't win you games.

The current team has three good players.

 

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I'm just trying to get an idea of the type of program that Michigan could reasonably aspire to. They will never be Kentucky or duke or Kansas. They would probably be able to be MSU but MSU has built a brand during the Izzo era that is impossible to match. 

But why can't they be ND, Wisconsin, Purdue, or even Indiana? Wisconsin seems like an anomaly, but these others have gone through down periods, too. So maybe Michigan isn't that far away?

In reality, I think they are pretty far away. The shine of the Burke and stauskas teams is still slightly there, but not for long.

Beilein isn't willing to do anything even bordering on dirty. He waits to offer young players. He won't oversign even though there is always going to be attrition. That stuff sounds great in an interview but it doesn't win you games.

The current team has three good players.

 

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I think that 2 year run was a situation where everything went right. I would say we should be an NCAA team most years, maybe sneak in another B1G title here or there if things align.

I think that's what our program is. 2014-2015 had everyone basically hurt iirc, and this year has been a bit of a downturn. We'll see what happens the rest of the season and next year. I don't think we should overreact to this season and look to replace Beilein. If it happens again next year, that will be different.

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6 hours ago, Shelton said:

I'm just trying to get an idea of the type of program that Michigan could reasonably aspire to. They will never be Kentucky or duke or Kansas. They would probably be able to be MSU but MSU has built a brand during the Izzo era that is impossible to match. 

But why can't they be ND, Wisconsin, Purdue, or even Indiana? Wisconsin seems like an anomaly, but these others have gone through down periods, too. So maybe Michigan isn't that far away?

In reality, I think they are pretty far away. The shine of the Burke and stauskas teams is still slightly there, but not for long.

Beilein isn't willing to do anything even bordering on dirty. He waits to offer young players. He won't oversign even though there is always going to be attrition. That stuff sounds great in an interview but it doesn't win you games.

The current team has three good players.

 

Why can't Michigan be Duke, Kentucky or Kansas?  They have more money than all those schools, they have an excellent tradition, they border on a couple of great basketball locations (Detroit and Chicago) and they have a brand name that should carry cache.  They also have the Jordan brand to do with it and amazing academics.

Michigan cant be Michigan State?  MICHIGAN STATE?  GTFO.  Michigan dominated Michigan State in every facet of basketball recruiting for years until the Fab Five scandal, they can easily do it again if they gave a **** about basketball.

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Yah, that's the thing. They should be able to go out and buy the absolute best possible coach available. There's no reason they can't go get a Harbaugh basically. Football recruiting is just as shady if not more so than basketball recruiting. 

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7 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Yah, that's the thing. They should be able to go out and buy the absolute best possible coach available. There's no reason they can't go get a Harbaugh basically. Football recruiting is just as shady if not more so than basketball recruiting. 

They should be able to buy the best coach available, to have the best facilities available, and have the best equipment deal available.

They have chosen to have a coach who appears to be squeeky clean because they are still in pearl clutching mode after the fab five.  Get the next young up and coming coach and pay him and his assistants big money just like they did with Harbaugh.

Michigan has the name recognition and income to dominate in every sport it wants to, including mens basketball.  They choose not to compete in men's basketball.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

They should be able to buy the best coach available, to have the best facilities available, and have the best equipment deal available.

They have chosen to have a coach who appears to be squeeky clean because they are still in pearl clutching mode after the fab five.  Get the next young up and coming coach and pay him and his assistants big money just like they did with Harbaugh.

That's what they thought they were doing with Ammaker. It turned out he probably had the talent but not the fire in the belly to be the kind of 24/7/365 guy you have to have at that level. That diversion set the program back quite a bit as well.

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Tom Izzo crying about how the loss was because it was seniors vs freshmen. Zak Irvin's 3 point performance just carried the day, you can't expect a freshman to handle that sort of experienced performance.

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6 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

That's what they thought they were doing with Ammaker. It turned out he probably had the talent but not the fire in the belly to be the kind of 24/7/365 guy you have to have at that level. That diversion set the program back quite a bit as well.

My senior year of undergrad was the year they fired ellerbe. At the time, drew Henson was about to leave early and go to spring training, and the basketball program was about to hire pitino. There was a headline in the daily that said "goodbye drew, hello Rick?"

of course pitino went to Louisville instead. Had they closed that deal, we would probably have a pretty good basketball program right now, but probably with a few more NCAA violations. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It sounded to me like Tom was saying they played like freshmen -> lost, as opposed to 'we lost because we used freshmen'.

Quote

Izzo says he's not making excuses ... but, 'that was seniors against freshmen.'

Izzo says his freshmen (Winston, Ward, Langford) didn't understand the seriousness of the game

Izzo: "U-M's seniors have lost 4-5 times to us, and they played with incredible passion that we didn't match"

 

Izzo is the master of saying 'this isn't an excuse but...' and dishing out backhanded compliments after every loss for his entire career. I get that when you're a driven and highly successful guy you probably don't handle losing well, but he's about the whiniest coach in any sport.

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