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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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8 hours ago, pfife said:

I obviously don't think it's a problem caused by the Democrats, but the notion that the Democrats missed an opportunity to work with him in that way may be legitimate.  However, for the last 11 years, we've been in a politics where the president gets no wins from the opposition party.   

What should they have lauded him on to get him on their side?

Border Wall?  Repealing Obamacare?  Restricting asylum for potential immigrants requesting it?  Tax cuts?  Travel restrictions for people from selected countries?

His policy positions, by and large, were and are, an anathema to popular Democratic party policy positions.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

What should they have lauded him on to get him on their side?

Border Wall?  Repealing Obamacare?  Restricting asylum for potential immigrants requesting it?  Tax cuts?  Travel restrictions for people from selected countries?

His policy positions, by and large, were and are, an anathema to popular Democratic party policy positions.

and the GOP party positions prior to 2016

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2 hours ago, ROMAD1 said:

and the GOP party positions prior to 2016

The GOP prior to 2016 had these same ideas, they just used dog whistles to express them.

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3 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

The GOP prior to 2016 had these same ideas, they just used dog whistles to express them.

Collective security, free trade and the Rule of Law were all in the platform prior to 2016.   Those are my core beliefs and Trump and Trumpism are against them.

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It started before 2016.

Alternately, what you think was mainstream Republican thought in 2016 was not mainstream in 2016.  If it were, Trump would not have won the primary.

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3 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Collective security, free trade and the Rule of Law were all in the platform prior to 2016.   Those are my core beliefs and Trump and Trumpism are against them.

You had that with Obama and you were against Obama.

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5 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Collective security, free trade and the Rule of Law were all in the platform prior to 2016.   Those are my core beliefs and Trump and Trumpism are against them.

I think you give the GOP a bigger pass on rule of law than it deserves even prior to Trump. The GOP's sense of outrage about unequal justice in domestic law has been lacking for a long time, and respect for international rule of law was not exactly a big part of Bush II's approach to foreign policy either - but whatever.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It started before 2016.

Alternately, what you think was mainstream Republican thought in 2016 was not mainstream in 2016.  If it were, Trump would not have won the primary.

He took the bus in a whole new direction. 

The identity stuff took over.  Guns, owning the libs, and abortion are now the platform.  The racialism and nationalism appealed to the non-educated whites.  To whit the college educated whites are a whole voting bloc Biden their time until someone comes and claims them.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It started before 2016.

Alternately, what you think was mainstream Republican thought in 2016 was not mainstream in 2016.  If it were, Trump would not have won the primary.

Bingo. It is naive to think Trump emerged out of nowhere and somehow manipulated an entire political party and the party's elected leaders to support him on positions that weren't already bubbling. 

It also ignores a very obvious reality of the Tea Party's rise prior to 2016, and how they were embraced by the GOP. 

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Just now, ROMAD1 said:

He took the bus in a whole new direction. 

The identity stuff took over.  Guns, owning the libs, and abortion are now the platform.  The racialism and nationalism appealed to the non-educated whites.  To whit the college educated whites are a whole voting bloc Biden their time until someone comes and claims them.

LMAO. The identity stuff took over with Trump?

Your party was attacking Obama on these very issues for the entirety of his presidency, prior to Trump even coming into the race. ****, YOU were attacking Obama on these issues.

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

You had that with Obama and you were against Obama.

Obama made plenty of mistakes.  If it were Romney against him in 2012 all over I'd vote for Romney.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

 respect for international rule of law was not exactly a big part of Bush II's approach to foreign policy either - but whatever.

Guantanamo, Torture, etc...

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Just now, ROMAD1 said:

He took the bus in a whole new direction. 

The identity stuff took over.  Guns, owning the libs, and abortion are now the platform.  The racialism and nationalism appealed to the non-educated whites.  To whit the college educated whites are a whole voting bloc Biden their time until someone comes and claims them.

I honestly think you are assuming what you thought the Republican party stood for was mainstream in 2016 when in reality you were in the minority among Republicans.  As you are now.

I'm as guilty as anyone.  I didn't see it until the Tea Party BS 10 years ago.  But it was there then.  ****, it was there before then, it was just better hidden.

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Lost in any of the Trump vs. the GOP stuff.  I was never a deficit hawk like the Tea Partiers claimed to be.  Those folks were using that as a hammer.

Meanwhile, my wife who works for GAO is beside herself with how fiscally insolvent this government has become.  She's a Dem but very much a fiscal hawk.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I honestly think you are assuming what you thought the Republican party stood for was mainstream in 2016 when in reality you were in the minority among Republicans.  As you are now.

I'm as guilty as anyone.  I didn't see it until the Tea Party BS 10 years ago.  But it was there then.  ****, it was there before then, it was just better hidden.

I'll take that critique.  I didn't see it.  I think people like Rubio and Jeb thought they could run on this in 2016 and found that the goobers were going nuts for this populist jive.

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14 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think you give the GOP a bigger pass on rule of law than it deserves even prior to Trump. The GOP's sense of outrage about unequal justice in domestic law has been lacking for a long time, and respect for international rule of law was not exactly a big part of Bush II's approach to foreign policy either - but whatever.

There's a ton of truth in this, even just generally speaking (ie. not simply in terms of rule of law)....

So much analysis on the rise of Trump is about what the Democrats may or may not have done to lead to his rise, comparatively little time is spent on GOP behavior or how they policed their own side/party that may have led to his rise.

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13 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Obama made plenty of mistakes.  If it were Romney against him in 2012 all over I'd vote for Romney.

Given what I know now, I vote for Romney too. Trump wouldn't have been the Republican nominee in 2016 if Romney was the incumbent.

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15 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

I'll take that critique.  I didn't see it.  I think people like Rubio and Jeb thought they could run on this in 2016 and found that the goobers were going nuts for this populist jive.

You refused to see it. In fact, you contributed to it. Look back at your previous posts about Obama. You attacked him from all angles, and on identity issues. You portrayed him to be the worst thing that ever happened to this country and not so subtly suggested he was a terrorist sympathizer who wasn't considering the best interest of the country. Gimme a break with the "everything was fine before Trump ruined our party" stuff. 

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Given what I know now, I vote for Romney too. Trump wouldn't have been the Republican nominee in 2016 if Romney was the incumbent.

well, if we want to play that game, all the Bll Clinton voters should admit they shouldn't have voted for him because we wouldn't have gotten Hillary in '16 and so would not have gotten Trump either! 🤔

xD

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4 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

You refused to see it. In fact, you contributed to it. Look back at your previous posts about Obama. You attacked him from all angles, and on identity issues. You portrayed him to be the worst thing that ever happened to this country and not so subtly suggested he was a terrorist sympathizer who wasn't considering the best interest of the country. Gimme a break with the "everything was fine before Trump ruined our party" stuff. 

Obama was everything these so called never Trumpers claim they want. They are/were enablers. It's like the practical joke that went too far. Now they want Democrats to nominate a Republican for them and fix their mess. What happens January 21, 2021 when Biden is inaugurated? I guarantee these never Trumpers are back to doing what they do best and making sure Biden is a one term president.

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7 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

well, if we want to play that game, all the Bll Clinton voters should admit they shouldn't have voted for him because we wouldn't have gotten Hillary in '16 and so would not have gotten Trump either! 🤔

xD

Be that is it may, we can all at least agree this is still amazing almost 40 years after the fact:

 

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34 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think you give the GOP a bigger pass on rule of law than it deserves even prior to Trump. The GOP's sense of outrage about unequal justice in domestic law has been lacking for a long time, and respect for international rule of law was not exactly a big part of Bush II's approach to foreign policy either - but whatever.

Going further back in the GOP, look at the Iran-Contra scandal. Great respect to rule of law and order there...

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