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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump

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19 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I'm held to a higher standard I guess... that's Trumpworld.  He gets a pass on everything.  I can't appoint judges.

 

You wrote about a fantasized, televised rape/ late-term abortion of a 15-year-old girl.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Oblong suggested Trump would perform an 8 month abortion on a 16 year old he impregnated and not lose support.

It is the late term abortion reference Mickey objects to as being beneath everyone.

I give up, Biggs.  

They can beat up on Stan.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

You wrote about a fantasized, televised rape/ late-term abortion of a 15-year-old girl.  

 

as opposed to Trump himself bragging about being able to wander around the dressing rooms and looking at underage Beauty Pageant contestants naked?

I fail to see this leap to something out of bounds.... he's already admitted to being halfway there.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

You wrote about a fantasized, televised rape/ late-term abortion of a 15-year-old girl.  

 

He wasn't fantasizing about it or making light of abortion. He was saying that would be a horrible string of events and yet it would not stop Trump supporters from supporting him.  

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Just now, tiger337 said:

He wasn't fantasizing about it or making light of abortion. He was saying that would be a horrible string of events and yet it would not stop Trump supporters from supporting him.  

I never said he "fantasized" about it, rather the reference was fantastical---he made it up, which means it was fantasy.

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1 minute ago, mickeyb105 said:

I give up, Biggs.  

They can beat up on Stan.

I enjoy reading your posts Mick.  I hope you stick around.

Stan is cut from a different cloth - he trolls and enjoys the banter it generates.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

I never said he "fantasized" about it, rather the reference was fantastical---he made it up, which means it was fantasy.

Just like Trump made up shooting someone on 5th Avenue.  Why does Trump get a pass for that?  

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11 minutes ago, Oblong said:

as opposed to Trump himself bragging about being able to wander around the dressing rooms and looking at underage Beauty Pageant contestants naked?

I fail to see this leap to something out of bounds.... he's already admitted to being halfway there.

He's also been accused at various times by somewhere in the vicinity of 18 different women of sexual misconduct. On top of the ***** tape.

Like, this is who the guy is.... pretending he isn't what he is doesn't change the reality.

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Just now, tiger337 said:

Just like Trump made up shooting someone on 5th Avenue.  Why does Trump get a pass for that?  

This feels like one of those self-realization moments that make you reevaluate the logic and thought processes you've used for a long time.

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4 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Just like Trump made up shooting someone on 5th Avenue.  Why does Trump get a pass for that?  

Well, shooting people is something Republicans love to make easier to do, while abortions are the boogyman.

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

I'm held to a higher standard I guess... that's Trumpworld.  He gets a pass on everything.  I can't appoint judges.

It the bigger issue around how to properly play against against people who won't follow the rules themselves. It would be nice if Michelle Obama were correct that you could always win by 'going high' but it's just human history that people who have put themselves beyond the bounds of civilized behavior are often ultimately removed from the scene by equally uncivilized response. 

This also goes back game theory. It is often the best policy to 'stay above the fray' and try to absorb the first several blows, but when eventually retribution is called for, it profits from being swift and thorough. The conduct of the US in WWII shows the outlines. The tide of war was already cast but in the face of the refusal of Germany or Japan to sue for peace the Allied strategies become much more ruthless. culminating in firebombing of cities and eventually the atomic attack on Japan. Trump has pushed the civilized segment of the body politic pretty near as far as it can go without being willing to sacrifice the 'American Experiment' altogether, and if the response eventually turns ruthless, that sadly is the way of world.

The test that then awaits a society after such a purge is whether civility can be restored.

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1 hour ago, Euphdude said:

A twitter war between Penn Jillette and Trump would be epic.

Penn Jillette: Trump said 'racially insensitive things' during 'Apprentice' tapings

"I am an unreliable witness" is an interesting take. Teller is a curious dude whose philosophies of life hold him to lines the rest of us can't see. I've often disagreed with his ideas about things but you can at least see the very live mind behind what he does.

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Former White House Staffer: NDA "Snuck in With" Other New Employee Paperwork

Quote

President Trump’s escalating digs at ex-aide Omarosa Manigault Newman over her gossipy new tell-all have brought new scrutiny to this White House’s unconventional—and, arguably, unconstitutional—policy of requiring staffers to sign non-disclosure agreements to prevent them disparaging the president.

The rule extended not just to those public-facing West Wing regulars, like Apprentice star Manigault Newman or former press secretary Sean Spicer—but also to lower-level recruits less likely to shop a White House memoir.

“We had to sign them when we went into the building,” said one former White House and former Trump campaign staffer, who described the practice as just a part of this president’s modus operandi going back many years. “Everyone I’ve seen was two or three pages and it’s straight-up No talking bad about Trump or his family,” he added.


The NDAs were administered by the ethics lawyer in the White House counsel’s office, Stefan Passantino—who appears to have foreseen from Day 1 the coming wave of ex-staffers’ seeking to cash in with tell-alls of their own. “I remember Stefan told us when we signed it that if you write a book it has to be approved by the White House and Trump before you publish it—if you want to actually make money off of it,” this staffer recalled to THE WEEKLY STANDARD. The NDA stated that staffers would have to forfeit to the government any earnings from an unapproved book.

That may have applied to Sean Spicer, too. He has denied signing a “no-disparagement” NDA like the one Manigault Newman described. But when asked whether he sought approval before his book The Briefing went to press, Spicer told TWS, “The president was aware of my book.” (TWS then asked whether he’d shared a manuscript with the White House, but Spicer did not reply.)

The White House press office did not immediately respond when asked to confirm whether Manigault Newman and Spicer signed these forms—nor did they furnish a redacted copy of the NDA requested by TWS.

The former staffer who spoke to TWS said his agreement was similar to the Trump NDA that Manigault- Newman previously described by the Washington Post. Its signing was “snuck in with” new staffers’ initiation, which also included other “actual forms you had to sign for the legitimate process of being onboarded”—as a result, few gave it a second thought. “Everyone just wanted to get inside. They were like, F*ck, okay, I’ll sign whatever. Just get me out of this,” he said.

 
“When we all got onboarded one of the things we had to do for our official ethics briefing was sign an NDA,” the staffer said—but they could not keep a signed copy for themselves. “Everything got taken away as soon as we signed it.” When asked about this part of the policy, the staffer explained: “You’re thinking this operates like a real legitimate business or campaign where everything you sign you get a copy of.” In Trump’s White House, “You’re dealing with something completely different.”

Something "completely different" from how government normally operates, certainly, but it's nothing new in Trump’s world. However, apart perhaps from Spicer’s praise of the president, the policy hasn’t proved particularly effective so far. “He wants to control information coming out he doesn’t want anything unflattering coming out—which of course leads to more unflattering sh*t coming out,” as the ex-staffer puts it.

If this is the case, this **** isn't going to fly in a court of law.

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The test that then awaits a society after such a purge is whether civility can be restored.

What has kept us from becoming violent against each other in the name of politics has been the diversity that's been achieved over the past 50 years.  If conservative rural voters decided to secede or take violent action against moderate suburbs or progressive cities, it would be within sections of counties without any kind of clear cut line of demarcation.  America has become such a melting point that we have no choice but to live with and tolerate one another.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

"I am an unreliable witness" is an interesting take. Teller is a curious dude whose philosophies of life hold him to lines the rest of us can't see. I've often disagreed with his ideas about things but you can at least the very live mind behind what he does.

Penn's brand of libertarianism would result in national anarchy, but he's pragmatic and self-aware enough to make compromises.  He's also a genius on many levels, and he would own Trump in any kind of debate - social media or otherwise.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

He wasn't fantasizing about it or making light of abortion. He was saying that would be a horrible string of events and yet it would not stop Trump supporters from supporting him.  

Yes - its the respect for the gravity of the scenario that makes the point of  how far beyond the pale Trump is despite the efforts of his supporters to somehow normalize him. If the form of the argument of how horrible the man is is taken off the table, you contribute to normalizing what he is, and to me that is a thing that is totally unacceptable.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

"I am an unreliable witness" is an interesting take. Teller is a curious dude whose philosophies of life hold him to lines the rest of us can't see. I've often disagreed with his ideas about things but you can at least the very live mind behind what he does.

The human mind can forget a lot of things over years... I can understand why he'd be uncomfortable stating definitively what he might have said.

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8 minutes ago, Euphdude said:

Penn's brand of libertarianism would result in national anarchy, but he's pragmatic and self-aware enough to make compromises.  He's also a genius on many levels, and he would own Trump in any kind of debate - social media or otherwise.

Yeah - there are only a few people I would pay to spend a leisurely day in friendly debate with, Gillette is one of them.

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18 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yes - its the respect for the gravity of the scenario that makes the point of  how far beyond the pale Trump is despite the efforts of his supporters to somehow normalized him. If the form of the argument of how horrible the man is is taken off the table, you contribute to normalizing what he is, and to me that is a thing that is totally unacceptable.

The implication here is that if there is a depth of unacceptable behavior that Trump would have to reach in order to lose significant support among GOP voters, we haven't reached it yet. And there has been no shortage of unacceptable behavior to date, meaning one would have to struggle to come up with a hypothetical scenario with which Trump would lose significant support from GOP voters.

I am still not entirely sure why it took Mickey so long to say what it was specifically that bothered him about Oblong's post. Asked him multiple times.

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4 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

Since I've been a member of MTS, there have been posters who have really shined over the years--Biggs, G2, Lee, Del, Betrayer and a few  others. 

You are in that category.

Yes, I disagree with you.

That post represents a low-point for content written by you here, but that is just my opinion as someone who has genuinely admired your POV on a variety of subjects over the years.  

 

 

Oblong has had way ****tier posts than this 

?

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I'm guessing it's also not common to provide an NDA to sign and then refuse to let the signer of the contract have a copy of said NDA

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43 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The implication here is that if there is a depth of unacceptable behavior that Trump would have to reach in order to lose significant support among GOP voters, we haven't reached it yet. And there has been no shortage of unacceptable behavior to date, meaning one would have to struggle to come up with a hypothetical scenario with which Trump would lose significant support from GOP voters.

 

I think the only way he loses their support is if he comes out and tells them he doesn't give a crap about them and has been messing with them the whole time.  

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