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Deleterious

Game #3: Bucks vs Pistons

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8 minutes ago, NYLion said:

The team played well the last 2 games.  Don't know why anybody wouldn't be optimistic about these games.  Seems like some of you guys are a bit too pessimistic about the team this season for some reason.   You guys are starting to sound like Lions fans.

God, I sound like TP now.  You never want to go full TP.  See what ya'll have done to me.

The force is growing stronger in this one!  If I keep at it, everyone in here will be planning parade routes for the next decade. 

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18 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Andre shot 50% tonight, which sounds good.  But this is what I mean when I say he wasn't that efficient.  When all of your shots are inside of 5 feet, you should be over 60%.

CQVfoAD.png

If you take into consideration his free throws, he is even less efficient.  But for me, the bottom line is he shoots 50% on two pointers where as most players will shoot 40-45% on two pointers, regardless of where they come from.  I will take his 50% over somebody elses 45%, even if it doesn't look as good because it is inside 5 feet.  

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8 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Teams are playing way off of him now and he is doing fine.  

The problems come when teams bring an extra defender to basically stand at the free throw line.  He (And most competent PG's) can get by one defender without much problem, but the second is problematic.  That requires your teammates to start knocking down the open jump shot.  Since they are currently shooting 26% from three, I'm not that confident in that.

The other problem is if/when teams start trapping him.  Reggie really struggled with that last year because he loves to dribble so much.  If you can't instantly split the trap you have to move the ball, make the defense chase it.  Ish will probably really struggle with this because he kind of likes to dribble a bit much too.  And with his small size he will have a hard time passing over the double.  

One nice thing I have noticed about Udrich is that he when he dribbles, he is usually still moving forward and attacking.  Reggie would often just wait for the pick and roll and if it is not there, just keep dribbling while everybody else just watches.  He is not alone in this.  This is what many NBA point guards have become.  I am just so over this and want a real point guard to lead this team.  

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25 minutes ago, Hart said:

One nice thing I have noticed about Udrich is that he when he dribbles, he is usually still moving forward and attacking.  Reggie would often just wait for the pick and roll and if it is not there, just keep dribbling while everybody else just watches.  He is not alone in this.  This is what many NBA point guards have become.  I am just so over this and want a real point guard to lead this team.  

The Reggie we've seen is the Reggie we're gonna get, though I'm sure SVG gets on him about giving up on the over-dribbling (and his teammates as well, I'd imagine).  We shall see how adaptable he is, though I expect it will take a season or two of adjustments, if it happens at all.

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16 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

I just can't see giving KCP that kind of money.

It wont even be 20% of the cap next year.

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52 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

It wont even be 20% of the cap next year.

I'll just have to keep telling myself that and do lots of . . .

tumblr_mbm5oxSeMU1r3qplao1_r5_250.gif

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1 hour ago, mickeyb105 said:

I just can't see giving KCP that kind of money.

You'll see it somewhere.  Either here or in another city.

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6 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Man.  Reading a Knicks forum and you would think the Pistons are the new 76ers.  They are expecting a blowout.

Wrong.  The nets are the new 76ers.  They were the brickiest team that ever bricked tonight against the bulls.  It was sad.  Their fans were booing them.

The knicks are ****. 

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4 hours ago, mickeyb105 said:

I just can't see giving KCP that kind of money.

Yeah, that Oladipo contract should put to rest these ridiculous ideas that KCP could get $25M per.  He should get in the 4yr $64M-$70M range if Oladipo's deal set KCP's market value.

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6 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yeah, that Oladipo contract should put to rest these ridiculous ideas that KCP could get $25M per.  He should get in the 4yr $64M-$70M range if Oladipo's deal set KCP's market value.

Just say you don't watch the league at all.  It would have taken less typing.

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SVG understands.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2016/10/30/detroit-pistons-kentavious-caldwell-pope/93021508/

Quote

“KCP helps us win games so would I like him to shoot the ball better? Yes, and so would he, but I’m not sitting around worrying about that,” Van Gundy said. “I don’t think that’s a real issue with our team. He’s gonna make shots as the year goes on, but he’s the guy who leads our defense.

“He’s our most consistently high-energy player. We need him on the floor, and to me, shots going in for him is just a bonus.”

 

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9 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Just say you don't watch the league at all.  It would have taken less typing.

Ok cool, we've established that I'm a dummy who knows nothing about basketball and will bow down to the almighty basketball guru Deleterious.  So educate me Your Excellency, what makes you think that KCP will get as much as much as Oladipo who is clearly a better player?  Are you banking on some GM losing their mind and throwing him an inflated offer sheet?  I suppose that's possible with the crazy spending in this league.  

I'm a KCP fan because I like the energy he gives to the team but he's a good defender who can't shoot, he's a role player.   If a GM wanted to offer him a $100M+ contract long term for the next 4-5 years (lol), they can have him.

 

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25 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Ok cool, we've established that I'm a dummy who knows nothing about basketball and will bow down to the almighty basketball guru Deleterious.  So educate me My Excellency, what makes you think that KCP will get as much as much as Oladipo who is clearly a better player?  Are you banking on some GM losing their mind and throwing him an inflated offer sheet?  I suppose that's possible with the crazy spending in this league.   I'm a KCP fan because I like the energy he gives to the team but he's a good defender who can't shoot, he's a role player.   If a GM wanted to offer him a $100M+ contract long term for the next 4-5 years (lol), they can have him.

 

Oladipo isn't clearly better.

Oladipo is a slightly better scorer, but just by a tiny amount.  Not enough to make up for the massive amounts of TO's he has, very troubling for a guy who isn't a full time PG.  Their shooting is about the same.  46/32 for KCP and 46/33 for Oladipo and KCP actually has a slightly higher eFG%, but KCP can't shoot according to you.  Oladipo is the better team defender by a decent margin while KCP is the much better one-on-one defender.  

There is a reason Oladipo was benched last year and it was no coincidence that the Magic started to play better when he was benched.  I imagine that stretch is why they were comfortable trading him away for an 18th PF.  It's hard to explain because there is no way to measure this stuff, but Oladipo just doesn't do a lot on the court to help his team win. I feel KCP does.

As far as the Pistons letting him walk, no.  Trade maybe, but they are not letting him walk, they can't.   I'm not saying and didn't say he would get $25M.  I said that is the chance you take by not locking him up now.  But KCP will get paid this summer, and if he hits free agency as a Piston, it will be by them.

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Another thing I like about KCP.  In an incredibly small sample size, he upped his game in the playoffs.  I like guys who play big in big games.  

That is also why I'm still high on SJ.

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BTW, the new CBA changes might screw the Pistons a bit when it comes to KCP.

They were talking about letting restricted free agents sign deals on July 1st (normally its somewhere between the 7th-10th) and only giving teams 48 hours (down from 72) to match.

In the past teams were reluctant to make offers on RFA's because it would lock up their cap space until the players team matched/declined.  But if they can start to sign these guys on the 1st they, will get their answer by the 3rd.  Meaning they will either have the RFA they wanted or their cap space back by time normal free agency starts later in the month.  To me that means you could see a lot more offer sheets going out.

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28 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Another thing I like about KCP.  In an incredibly small sample size, he upped his game in the playoffs.  I like guys who play big in big games.  

That is also why I'm still high on SJ.

I like that about him too, he has a lot of intangibles that would be hard to replace.  He hit a lot of clutch shots in the regular season too.  I just have a problem committing $20M+/yr to a player who is a very inconsistent shooter and only puts up 12-14ppg.   Also, I'm not sure that the rest of the league will see him as valuable as the Pistons do based on his raw numbers, it's a make or miss league and he misses a lot. 

His numbers are pretty modest for a starting shooting guard.  Say what you want about Oladipo  but he has been a 16-18ppg scorer the last 3 seasons.  More proven and his scoring numbers are a good deal higher than KCP.  I don't see what case KCP has to get the Oladipo contract if comparables mean anything at all in negotiations which I'm sure they do.

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5 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I like that about him too, he has a lot of intangibles that would be hard to replace.  I just have a problem committing $20M+/yr to a player who is a very inconsistent shooter and only puts up 12-14ppg.   Also, I'm not sure that the rest of the league will see him as valuable as the Pistons do.  His numbers are pretty modest for a starting shooting guard.  Say what you want about Oladipo  but he has been a 17-18ppg scorer the last 3 seasons.  More proven and his scoring numbers are a good deal higher than KCP.  I don't see what case KCP has to get the Oladipo contract if comparables mean anything at all in negotiations which I'm sure they do.

PPG doesn't mean much.  It doesn't account for each teams pace, who took the most shots, etc.  Look at per/100 or even better points per shot when it comes to scoring.  1.19 to 1.15 points per shot, advantage Oladipo.  They are similar players on offense.  All of their shooting%'s are similar, within a point or two except I think Oladipo is a better FT shooter.  

KCP is worth every penny Oladipo is and now their is a high risk he will get more by hitting free agency.  

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41 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Another thing I like about KCP.  In an incredibly small sample size, he upped his game in the playoffs.  I like guys who play big in big games.  

That is also why I'm still high on SJ.

Yes to this, and the other post on KCP/Oladipo

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13 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

PPG doesn't mean much.  It doesn't account for each teams pace, who took the most shots, etc.  Look at per/100 or even better points per shot when it comes to scoring.  1.19 to 1.15 points per shot, advantage Oladipo.  They are similar players on offense.  All of their shooting%'s are similar, within a point or two except I think Oladipo is a better FT shooter.  

KCP is worth every penny Oladipo is and now their is a high risk he will get more by hitting free agency.  

Oladipo shot quite a bit better from long distance last season while KCP regressed.  Obviously, none of us are privy to what actually goes on in negotiations but I'd bet that they don't look too deep into advanced stats although I could be wrong.  I do agree on the risk of his next contract being higher now that he's an RFA because he's susceptible to offer sheets which always go well higher than market value. 

As I said, I like what KCP brings but man, I'm having a hard time justifying giving him a $20M+/yr contract long term unless we see some shooting improvement this season.  Having him locked up long term doesn't give the Pistons much wiggle room to bring in a high volume shooter and I'm talking starter not reserve although I suppose they could always move one of the small forwards to make it happen.

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1 minute ago, NYLion said:

Oladipo shot quite a bit better from long distance last season while KCP regressed.  Obviously, none of us are privy to what actually goes on in negotiations but I'd bet that they don't look too deep into advanced stats although I could be wrong.  I do agree on the risk of his next contract being higher now that he's an RFA because he's susceptible to offer sheets which always go well higher than market value. 

As I said, I like what KCP brings but man, I'm having a hard time justifying giving him a $20M+/yr contract long term unless we see some shooting improvement this season.  Having him locked up long term doesn't give the Pistons much wiggle room to bring in a high volume shooter and I'm talking starter not reserve although I suppose they could always move one of the small forwards to make it happen.

Almost every organization has dumped a ton of cash into analytics departments.  I guarantee they look at them.

You seem hung up on the dollar amount.  Like I said earlier, that isn't even 20% of the cap.

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