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Deleterious

#2 Michigan vs. Michigan State - 10/29/16

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            #2 Michigan Wolverines (7-0)               vs.           Michigan State Spartans (2-5)

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Saturday, Oct. 29 • 12:00 p.m. ET

From Spartan Stadium in East Lansing, Michigan

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TV: 8Mcbq23.png

 

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1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

In honor of Benke, I put this up before any MSU fans could.

 

 

D-

There is no gif that took you six months to create. 

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What is the story with MSU?  I haven't paid attention, but the 2-5 record is a surprise at least for me. 

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It's been a tough eight years. I don't remember when the college board died, but it sure would be nice to have sportz and spartan valor and lionsandtigersand around for this year.

The past years, not so much.

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16 minutes ago, Shelton said:

It's been a tough eight years. I don't remember when the college board died, but it sure would be nice to have sportz and spartan valor and lionsandtigersand around for this year.

The past years, not so much.

It died when the moderators split the boards and basically shut down any cross rival talk, which effected noone but the people posting in these threads.  It was great, now the college board is nothing. 

As for sparty, they won't be this bad going forward, but with Harbaugh in town, they will go back to what they were a decade ago.   Maybe Dantonio is thinking about Jettisoning for a better lay of the land?

As for the game this saturday, U of M by 3 TDs minimum. 

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Is the state of Michigan not big enough for two top tier football programs?  Is there that much rivalry in recruiting?  

Or is this just a down year, or injury marred season, for MSU?  

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Overall, MSU's  athletic program and school does not have the $$$ or cache that UM has attached to it.  Rightly or not.

If both programs have similar coaching and recruiting, I would say UM is likely to snag the better recruits unless a given recruit falls in love with MSU's system or has a personal tie in to the program.

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2 hours ago, T&P_Fan said:

It died when the moderators split the boards and basically shut down any cross rival talk, which effected noone but the people posting in these threads.  It was great, now the college board is nothing.

Meh, the college forum wasn't great, it was basically 4 or 5 posters picking on Benke and the rest of us getting eye cancer.

People probably remember Sportz most on the Tigers forum but it was his borderline psychotic verbal abuse of Benke (I think) late one night in a Michigan thread that got him kicked.

Nothing of value was lost, losing sportz or splitting the forums.

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Overall, MSU's  athletic program and school does not have the $$$ or cache that UM has attached to it.  Rightly or not.

If both programs have similar coaching and recruiting, I would say UM is likely to snag the better recruits unless a given recruit falls in love with MSU's system or has a personal tie in to the program.

So in essence then, you are saying that the state is not big enough for two top tier programs because recruits generally prefer UM to MSU, and there aren't enough to go around?  I would think that there should be plenty of recruits to go around, even if MSU lost out on a few to UM.

Also, even with losing out in two recruiting years, isn't two recruiting classes into the Harbaugh regime an awfully fast fall from grace for MSU?  It seems like if this was a recruiting issue (ie UM has more $$$ and cache) that MSU's decline would happen a bit more slowly (over four seasons).  

I'm probably making too much out of this, but I feel like I just turned around and MSU was all of a sudden a losing program.  And it was surprising for me. 

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2 hours ago, ballmich said:

What is the story with MSU?  I haven't paid attention, but the 2-5 record is a surprise at least for me. 

They lost 2 OL & a QB to the NFL, & the loss of Pat Narduzzi defensively is catching up with them.

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1 minute ago, djhutch said:

They lost 2 OL & a QB to the NFL, & their defense is atrocious.

But in normal years, wouldn't there be quality replacement OL's and QB ready to step in?  And why is the defense suddenly atrocious?

Even with more competition from UM in recruiting the last two years, I feel like MSU should still have several classes advantage over the Hoke years that are still on roster. 

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24 minutes ago, ballmich said:

So in essence then, you are saying that the state is not big enough for two top tier programs because recruits generally prefer UM to MSU, and there aren't enough to go around?  I would think that there should be plenty of recruits to go around, even if MSU lost out on a few to UM.

Also, even with losing out in two recruiting years, isn't two recruiting classes into the Harbaugh regime an awfully fast fall from grace for MSU?  It seems like if this was a recruiting issue (ie UM has more $$$ and cache) that MSU's decline would happen a bit more slowly (over four seasons).  

I'm probably making too much out of this, but I feel like I just turned around and MSU was all of a sudden a losing program.  And it was surprising for me. 

I think being in the same state has little to nothing to do with it.  You could say the same thing comparing UM to Illinois or Minnesota or Iowa.  The fact MSU is located near to UM is coincidental, honestly.  If MSU had the same level of funding and historical success as UM, they would be on equal footing in that regard.  But they don't, and it basically means MSU has to have objectively better coaching and recruiting skills to net a similar pool of recruits as UM.

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25 minutes ago, ballmich said:

But in normal years, wouldn't there be quality replacement OL's and QB ready to step in?  And why is the defense suddenly atrocious?

Even with more competition from UM in recruiting the last two years, I feel like MSU should still have several classes advantage over the Hoke years that are still on roster. 

But MSU doesn't have the cache or money of UM and recruits as a group are influenced by that. 

Alternately, UM can absorb a Hoke regime much easier than MSU could.

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16 minutes ago, ballmich said:

But in normal years, wouldn't there be quality replacement OL's and QB ready to step in?  And why is the defense suddenly atrocious?

Even with more competition from UM in recruiting the last two years, I feel like MSU should still have several classes advantage over the Hoke years that are still on roster. 

Their success wasn't built on out-competing UM and OSU for recruits. They had a few real nice ones for sure that they took from Michigan, but that was more icing on the cake. They had a ton of good not great recruits that they churned out into good/great players and that built their success. This was especially true IMO on the defensive side of the ball.  Whether that was identifying players for the system or the coaching, who knows.

Last year was a pretty incredible year for the success they had in getting the last out of their upperclassman. Great set of WRs, an overachieving defense and one of the top performing QBs in the country. Incredible year all around.

But the past couple years, for whatever reason, they haven't been able to find that success in recruiting/developing their underclassman. So the depth is terrible and much of what was left that was proven is injured. And now they have horrible performance at QB--I said last year if the QBs were reversed, UM would have won by 30.

I think going forward they can certainly rebuild the defense and have a power run/pass offense and generally be a Wisconsin level team. The QB success they had to me didn't seem repeatable--i.e. having 1 guy start for 3 years is very high variance if that is the plan. We'll find that out in the next couple of seasons, however. This is more of a gap year for the QBs that could easily get better next year.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

But MSU doesn't have the cache or money of UM and recruits as a group are influenced by that. 

Yup, I think Dantonio is a great coach but a so-so recruiter. When he came to MSU, he had a highly favorable recruiting situation, ND, UM, OSU, PSU all with various problems during his early years. But  PSU has stabilized, UM now has an insane recruiter, Meyer is Meyer, even Illinois has a guy with NFL cachet now. Look at the class rankings, and even though the rankings have their problems, it's been clear Dantonio has not been able to bring in top ranked classes. So he does get a huge talent like Cousins and the stars align a little and he wins like crazy, but then everyone around him has suddenly rebuilt, UM/OSU now bringing in top 5 recruiting classes, and when he suffers a big graduation year, and he just doesn't have the talent depth to weather it.

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So has it stuck anyone how 'quiet' Harbaugh has been recently? Have there been any twitter wars I've missed, anyone near the program complaining about evil JH on the interwebs? Senior players ripping the program on deep background?  Is our coach who can't help but burn people out and rub people the wrong way calming down, or is just the lull before the storm? :o

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I'm a big State fan and here's my thoughts.

We had a great 3 year run.... really a great 5 year run out of 6 after the 2009 debacle of 6-7. We won 11 games in 5 of those 6 seasons... Including 3 Big Ten Championships, a Rose Bowl win, a Cotton Bowl win, a playoff berth, and dominating Michigan.

But it's over. Michigan found their coach. They are getting the talent and our ability to develop talent has been hampered by the loss of Narduzzi on defense and the total lack of quality coordinators on both sides of the ball. Our coordinators are absolutely terrible.

I think there is a serious lack of leadership from the senior class. We lost to a good Wisconsin team, but then turned around and lost to Indiana, BYU, Northwestern, and Maryland. At a minimum, even in a bad year, that should've been 2-2. 6-6 should be the floor and it's going to end up 4-8.... maybe even 3-9. A 6-6 year after losing a lot would not have been that awful for me. We aren't Alabama. But this has been plain unacceptable on all levels.

The offense has struggled.... But I don't think the QB play has been that awful. We have running backs. Outside of Shelton and Price there aren't many options to throw it.... But the offensive line has been their biggest issue. Before last week we hadn't been able to run the ball at all.

The defense has been the biggest disappointment. A lot of experience in that group and they've been AWFUL. No pressure on the QB. Can't get off the field on 3rd down. Can't stop the pass. Can't stop the run. Dominated in crunch time. It's been a train wreck. An absolute disgrace. # 7 Cox a senior captain has been GOD AWFUL in coverage. Seems like he gets beat every single time.

The special teams have been a wreck too. All the coordinators must go. Need some serious change before next fall or this could turn into a theme.

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47 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

I.... All the coordinators must go. Need some serious change before next fall or this could turn into a theme.

Baumgardner was also speculating in his MLive podcast about whether  Dantonio would face the need to maybe fire some of the guys that have been with him for awhile now.

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I will be attending this game. First game in East Lansing since 2005 for me, although that year I watched the game on tv at a tailgate. I really hate that place.

I think the last time I was in the stadium was 1997.

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I believe Harbaugh will run this one up, between the tweets, dantonio's comments last year (postgame) and other things from MSU over the last few years.  Plus it is MSU.   

Biggest question is will there be dirty play from MSU like a few years back, the 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness that MSU promoted.

Harbaughs philosophy, if you don't like it stop it.

 

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MSU's OL recruiting from 13 or 14 was not good very few guys remaining from that class iirc.  Has impacted them this year big time.  

Their DL had graduation and some guys they were counting on leave the team.

50/50 they make a bowl game this year.

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I said before the season that I expected MSU to go .500 during the season and lose their bowl game but they may be up against odds to do that at this point.

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