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Deleterious

Preseason 2016

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There is no doubt that Smith is a better pure facilitator than Reggie, that is one reason why SVG signed him on to play ~20 MIN off the bench this year against other reserve lead guards.  In this capacity, Smith is wonderful.

As the guy to start at PG on THIS starting five, which still shows to be a middling outside shooting bunch with slightly more potential as a fast break team, I just don't know.  I think SVG better look to push the ball a ton with Ish out there or it will be ugly.

I genuinely wish I shared Del's optimism on the early part of the schedule.  The easiest team out of that first six-block is Brooklyn, who didn't exactly look overmatched against Detroit in the pre-season opener.  I know, LOL pre-season but I'm genuinely worried about the team's offense without Jackson.  If we split the first six games I'll be pretty OK with it.

The team may have improved from last year, but so did a lot of other teams in the L.

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Force it to Drummond in the post more?  That is going to be hard to watch for any amount of time--right up there with watching Scott Mitchell scramble or Rodman shooting threes.  I just kind of hold my breath each time Drummond gets the ball down low outside of the charge area.

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7 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

There is no doubt that Smith is a better pure facilitator than Reggie, that is one reason why SVG signed him on to play ~20 MIN off the bench this year against other reserve lead guards.  In this capacity, Smith is wonderful.

As the guy to start at PG on THIS starting five, which still shows to be a middling outside shooting bunch with slightly more potential as a fast break team, I just don't know.  I think SVG better look to push the ball a ton with Ish out there or it will be ugly.

I genuinely wish I shared Del's optimism on the early part of the schedule.  The easiest team out of that first six-block is Brooklyn, who didn't exactly look overmatched against Detroit in the pre-season opener.  I know, LOL pre-season but I'm genuinely worried about the team's offense without Jackson.  If we split the first six games I'll be pretty OK with it.

The team may have improved from last year, but so did a lot of other teams in the L.

You're putting too much stock into preseason.  Most of these guys haven't played competitive ball for months so it's going to take a while for everybody to get in game shape and mesh together.  The early schedule is perfect timing for this team with Reggie out.  There's no reason that they shouldn't sweep those teams at home or at least win 3 out of 4 and they SHOULD beat Brooklyn. 

On paper, this should be a 4-2, 5-1 start.  They will miss Reggie but this isn't like Cleveland losing Lebron. The Pistons have enough talent, depth and cohesiveness to withstand Reggie's loss for the short term.  I think SVG should sign a vet backup PG in the meantime, I'd take Blake back as a short term fix.

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It is possible I put too much stock into pre-season, but I've said that this Pistons team will struggle to lock down a 7/8 seed again this season for months now.  Is what I've seen so far supposed to change my mind?

There are some on this board that put little stock into the changes made by organizations like Orlando, Denver and NYK.  To be sure, those teams have a lot to prove but what exactly makes them a worse team right now, with Smith playing point and no viable second ball handling option on the horizon, than the Pistons?  Those teams have talent, even all-stars and future all-stars.  Why is it a lock that we should go 4-2 or 5-1?

Detroit has had good production at the pg spot since trading for Jennings and signing DJ as a backup.  There was pretty much no let-down when injuries occurred.  Now, we have a good backup starting and nobody to spell him effectively coming off the bench on a team that has few players that can get their own offense on a regular basis.

So yeah, I'm worried.

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worry away. Only time will tell I suppose. I'm loving this team right now and am not scared of bad teams who made minor improvements or preseason games. 

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I'm not worried either, especially not because of a couple of preseason games.  Ish needs some time to figure out his new role and mesh with the group.  It's a work in progress but a good chunk of the team is back from last season so it shouldn't be too rough of a transition.  I think the Pistons have enough depth to somewhat offset the loss of Reggie so I'm not concerned YET.   I do wish that SVG would pick up a stopgap backup PG, it's a big hole in the lineup.

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For example, let's look at Orlando--a team most say won't make the playoffs this season.

C--Vucevic/Biyombo

PF--Ibaka/Gordon

SF--Green/Mario

SG--Fournier/Meeks

PG--Payton/DJ

Who will start and where they play within the rotation is anyone's guess, but this is a team that can really get after it on defense.  With a lineup of Biyombo/Ibaka/Gordon/Fournier/Payton I'm not sure there is a team in the NBA that can put out a more effective defensive team.  Is this one of our "sure" wins?

And Denver, while still a ways away from being good, can be plenty dangerous on any given night.

C--Jokic/Nurkic

PF--Faried/Arthur

SF--Gallo/Chandler

SG--Barton/Harris

PG--Mudiay/Murray

A team like this gives the current Pistons team some real difficulties.  Two good centers, two lunchpail PF, two gunning forwards, Barton probably cancels out KCP, and two big/athletic PG.  Sure, the Pistons are favorites to win this game but that's not going to be the cakewalk it was last year.

More important than who we are playing, or how improved the bench is--the team has a genuine inability to create offense for itself sans Reggie.  Having a distributor like Ish is great, but he's not going to hurt teams with his own offense and they sure aren't going to respect it.  And once he's out of the game, we are relying on players not known for moving the ball to do just that.

 

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

Someone tried it.

 

Of course we really don't have all that much data on whether underhand is a good strategy or not. Berry is the last guy to use it much but he was such a skilled player I bet his FT % woud have been fine if he had shot them overhand.

The more interesting question is where did the whole "underhand is for sissies" really start? Pro Baseball players use underhand tosses all the time on the IF. Women's fast pitch SB is no game for sissies. If the point is to win and you win by putting the ball in the hoop who cares how you do it?

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Of course we really don't have all that much data on whether underhand is a good strategy or not. Berry is the last guy to use it much but he was such a skilled player I bet his FT % woud have been fine if he had shot them overhand.

The more interesting question is where did the whole "underhand is for sissies" really start? Pro Baseball players use underhand tosses all the time on the IF. Women's fast pitch SB is no game for sissies. If the point is to win and you win by putting the ball in the hoop who cares how you do it?

This was a topic on a Malcom gladwell podcsst from a few months ago.

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On 10/11/2016 at 1:21 PM, mickeyb105 said:

For example, let's look at Orlando--a team most say won't make the playoffs this season.

C--Vucevic/Biyombo

PF--Ibaka/Gordon

SF--Green/Mario

SG--Fournier/Meeks

PG--Payton/DJ

Who will start and where they play within the rotation is anyone's guess, but this is a team that can really get after it on defense.  With a lineup of Biyombo/Ibaka/Gordon/Fournier/Payton I'm not sure there is a team in the NBA that can put out a more effective defensive team.  Is this one of our "sure" wins?

And Denver, while still a ways away from being good, can be plenty dangerous on any given night.

C--Jokic/Nurkic

PF--Faried/Arthur

SF--Gallo/Chandler

SG--Barton/Harris

PG--Mudiay/Murray

A team like this gives the current Pistons team some real difficulties.  Two good centers, two lunchpail PF, two gunning forwards, Barton probably cancels out KCP, and two big/athletic PG.  Sure, the Pistons are favorites to win this game but that's not going to be the cakewalk it was last year.

More important than who we are playing, or how improved the bench is--the team has a genuine inability to create offense for itself sans Reggie.  Having a distributor like Ish is great, but he's not going to hurt teams with his own offense and they sure aren't going to respect it.  And once he's out of the game, we are relying on players not known for moving the ball to do just that.

 

You can lose on any given night in the NBA, but I think we are deeper, more talented and better coached with a smoother running system on both ends of the floor than both of these teams. 

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42 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Of course we really don't have all that much data on whether underhand is a good strategy or not. Berry is the last guy to use it much but he was such a skilled player I bet his FT % woud have been fine if he had shot them overhand.

The more interesting question is where did the whole "underhand is for sissies" really start? Pro Baseball players use underhand tosses all the time on the IF. Women's fast pitch SB is no game for sissies. If the point is to win and you win by putting the ball in the hoop who cares how you do it?

Supposedly studies have shown that underhand is most effective, but IDK really. 

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15 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Supposedly studies have shown that underhand is most effective, but IDK really. 

I suppose one argument that make some sense is that if you are making overhand shots through the course of the game, you are already in that 'muscle mode' for your FTs. But for a player that doesn't actually shoot much anyway (read "AD") it doesn't seem that would matter much.

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The Pistons team is kinda deep, but thin at SVG's pet position at the moment.  This is one reason why I think the Pistons and SVG will be very fortunate to be .500 when Jackson returns. 

Buddah mentioned this, maybe in a different thread, but the outside shooting of this team is still suspect.  Right now, we have a starting point guard in Smith that doesn't shoot from the outside well at all and shooting guard in KCP that shot 30.9% from 3pt last year.  I would love to be more optimistic about life without Jackson right now, but this team's star is tied to his.

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It would seem the more relative vertical movement (and less side to side and fore/aft movement) you can get on the ball coming down, the higher your odds to hit a given shot.  Shooting underhand starts you from a lower start point and aids in that, I think.

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5 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

The Pistons team is kinda deep, but thin at SVG's pet position at the moment.  This is one reason why I think the Pistons and SVG will be very fortunate to be .500 when Jackson returns. 

Buddah mentioned this, maybe in a different thread, but the outside shooting of this team is still suspect.  Right now, we have a starting point guard in Smith that doesn't shoot from the outside well at all and shooting guard in KCP that shot 30.9% from 3pt last year.  I would love to be more optimistic about life without Jackson right now, but this team's star is tied to his.

I agree. Going to be tough going in the opening weeks without Reggie.

And I'd say that the outside shooting is more than suspect, especially without Reggie - it's downright bad. Morris is the only guy in the starting lineup that shoots over 36% (just barely) and most of the rest aren't even close. Leuer can help off the bench, but SJ isn't helping those outside shooting stats for sure. Unless we see great leaps of improvement that have yet to show their face in preseason, this team is going to be hurting from the perimeter and since the lack of Reggie makes them short on playmakers as well I'm expecting a lot of contested outside shots to be taken. That's the recipe for a rough start to the season.

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Healthy, I view the Pistons as a second round playoff team with a small shot at the conference finals as long as they don't play Cleveland in the second round.

Seven of their first ten games are against teams that probably won't make the playoffs. Even missing one of their better players I feel they are still good enough to beat those caliber of teams.

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2 minutes ago, mickeyb105 said:

Del, can I borrow some of that optimism before I get on my flight?

Send me a PM for some top notch tournament advice.

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5 hours ago, Betrayer said:

I agree. Going to be tough going in the opening weeks without Reggie.

And I'd say that the outside shooting is more than suspect, especially without Reggie - it's downright bad. Morris is the only guy in the starting lineup that shoots over 36% (just barely) and most of the rest aren't even close. Leuer can help off the bench, but SJ isn't helping those outside shooting stats for sure. Unless we see great leaps of improvement that have yet to show their face in preseason, this team is going to be hurting from the perimeter and since the lack of Reggie makes them short on playmakers as well I'm expecting a lot of contested outside shots to be taken. That's the recipe for a rough start to the season.

Maybe, hard to say. KCP shot 34.5 the year before, Harris shot 37.5 as a Piston, Leuer is a potential improvement like you said. Stanley shooting better from 3 would be huge. 

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SVG didn't allow dribbling in the scrimmage yesterday.

You could dribble on the PnR and for a dribble hand off, but nothing else.  No driving.

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