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Sydney_Fife

2016 Offseason

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7 minutes ago, VaBengal said:

I assume Upton's contract came with something of a no-trade, but I can't find evidence of that. So let's assume he can be dealt.

My understanding is that Upton has a limited no trade clause so that he cannot be traded to 20 teams (so 10 he can, 20 he cannot unless he waives that clause).  Also the problem with trying to trade Upton is that he's already been through free agency once and left another team and he's able to opt out of his contract after the 2017 season and leave another team too.  So if your a team contemplating trading for Upton, you have to think of it as only a 1 year rental for sure, then you may have to bid on his services to keep him if Upton ops out of his contract again,,,

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I just don't see how you can trade Upton. He showed what we expected to see for the final month and a half - why would we want to have had him for the worst 4 1/2 month stretch of his career and then give him up when he's turned it around? If he performs at his career average his contract is absolutely worth it, but he's in his prime and could very well overperform for the next couple of years.

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4 minutes ago, DubTownTigersFan said:

I just don't see how you can trade Upton. He showed what we expected to see for the final month and a half - why would we want to have had him for the worst 4 1/2 month stretch of his career and then give him up when he's turned it around? If he performs at his career average his contract is absolutely worth it, but he's in his prime and could very well overperform for the next couple of years.

He should not be untouchable. Nobody should except JV and Miggy. Even with Fulmer--if Tony LaRussa was somehow hired as president of the Braves and offered Inciarte and Swanson, of course you are going to do that.

So that said if someone wants to give us 2 or 3 MLB ready pitchers for JUp or JD, that would certainly help the team in the long run and maybe even the short term as well, as we are obviously short a few arms still.

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I'm only advocating trading Upton if a) there is a directive to cut salary or b) having him completely prevents us from signing JD long term. Otherwise I'm happy to have him. I just would rather have JD if I had to pick one of them. As for how great he was the last 45 days of the season, I guess I'd look at that as a good thing to help his trade value. Some team that needs a power hitter and is going to compete next year might be willing to plug him into its lineup even if it is just for a year. Upton always has been a streaky hitter. I don't think we can expect that he now has "figured it out" and will produce at his Aug-Sept. levels all year long. He's going to be streaky for the rest of his contract.

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7 minutes ago, VaBengal said:

I'm only advocating trading Upton if a) there is a directive to cut salary or b) having him completely prevents us from signing JD long term. Otherwise I'm happy to have him. I just would rather have JD if I had to pick one of them. As for how great he was the last 45 days of the season, I guess I'd look at that as a good thing to help his trade value. Some team that needs a power hitter and is going to compete next year might be willing to plug him into its lineup even if it is just for a year. Upton always has been a streaky hitter. I don't think we can expect that he now has "figured it out" and will produce at his Aug-Sept. levels all year long. He's going to be streaky for the rest of his contract.

I wouldn't force myself to trade Upton just to keep JD around. They're similar enough players to where that would feel like the tail wagging the dog.

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I still like to sign JD long term this offseason and just bank on Upton opting out next year.  

And even if Upton doesn't opt out and you decide you can't keep both I think you could still get something for JD next season even with an expensive contract.   

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If I'm reading Cott's baseball contracts right, here is what's going on after the 2017 and 2018 seasons....


Possibly leaving after the 2017 season is over:

Justin Upton can opt out of his contract ($22.125M for 2017)
JD Martinez is a free agent ($11.75M in 2017)
Cameron Maybin ($9M or $1M buyout for 2017)
Mike Pilfrey ($8M in 2017)
Francisco Rodriguez ($6M or $1M buyout for 2017)
Mark Lowe ($5.5M for 2017)


Possibly leaving after the 2018 season is over;

Victor Martinez is a free agent:  $18M for 2018
Ian Kinsler is a free agent ($12M contract or $5M buy out for 2018)
Anibal Sanchez is a free agent ($16M for the 2017 season or $5M buyout)
Jose Iglesias (Arb 3 for 2018)
Justin Wilson (Arb 3 for 2018)

I think it's interesting that there is talk about trading JD or Upton right now when it's entirely possible that the Tigers could lose all three starting outfielders (Maybin, JD and Upton) to free agency after the 2017 season is over.





 

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2 hours ago, ballmich said:

We reacquired Maybin.  We tried to reacquire Miller.  I would not be shocked if we kicked the tires on Turner if he becomes a free agent.  But I doubt anyone would offer more than a minor league deal at this stage.  

Oh yeah, that's all it would be. But I can't imagine him going anywhere else.

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58 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

He should not be untouchable. Nobody should except JV and Miggy. Even with Fulmer--if Tony LaRussa was somehow hired as president of the Braves and offered Inciarte and Swanson, of course you are going to do that.

So that said if someone wants to give us 2 or 3 MLB ready pitchers for JUp or JD, that would certainly help the team in the long run and maybe even the short term as well, as we are obviously short a few arms still.

I think it was Dombrowski that once said that when it comes to trades, "If another team is going to trade to my team two Miguel Cabrera's in exchange for my one, Miguel Cabrera,.....I would do that trade."

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40 minutes ago, STLTiger69 said:


I think it's interesting that there is talk about trading JD or Upton right now when it's entirely possible that the Tigers could lose all three starting outfielders (Maybin, JD and Upton) to free agency after the 2017 season is over.

That is a good reason to make moves now. Putting together a roster is not just getting 9 guys on the field together for one season, it's planning for the succession of players in time. If your whole outfield is like as not gone in a year, you'd better be trying to either sign guys or trade for other guys you can control.



 

 

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1 hour ago, STLTiger69 said:

I think it's interesting that there is talk about trading JD or Upton right now when it's entirely possible that the Tigers could lose all three starting outfielders (Maybin, JD and Upton) to free agency after the 2017 season is over.
 

I'm not terribly concerned about it.  First it requires that Upton opts out, and that we don't work out an extension with JD.  But if that happens and all three were to leave after 2017, we'd have $43 million to spend on replacements.   Should be enough to splurge on two very good OF's. 

I personally believe that we can extend JD pretty easily if we wanted to, as he has a good relationship with Avila, and has stated that he likes playing in Detroit. It's a matter of whether we can find room under whatever our payroll limitations we have, to do it.

Maybin had a great season, and his option seems like a good move right now, but 2016 is a clear outlier and $9 million isn't cheap.  I don't mind if he leaves after 2017.  Of course if he has a huge 2017 season, I may think differently, but I'm not expecting that.

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1 hour ago, STLTiger69 said:


I think it's interesting that there is talk about trading JD or Upton right now when it's entirely possible that the Tigers could lose all three starting outfielders (Maybin, JD and Upton) to free agency after the 2017 season is over.





 

this.   Probably the reason you hold on to JD until at least the trade deadline next year.

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30 minutes ago, ballmich said:

I personally believe that we can extend JD pretty easily if we wanted to, as he has a good relationship with Avila, and has stated that he likes playing in Detroit. It's a matter of whether we can find room under whatever our payroll limitations we have, to do it.

+1 agree with you that the Tigers should consider signing JD now if they have any serious plans of keeping him beyond 2017.  But I'm trying to figure out if I was the Tigers GM how to go about this.  

If you wanted to extend JD, you basically have to budget thinking Upton will stay for 2018 and beyond,....even if he doesn't.  Upton controls the strings on his own departure unless the Tigers use the short list of 10 teams they can trade him too. The other question I wonder about is, does anyone really want Maybin beyond 2017 or as a GM, do you just say something like;

 "Maybin was good in 2016, let's see if he can do it again in 2017 and if he does, then the Tigers will just bid for him as a free agent if we need him that bad for 2018 and beyond?"

Also there is a part of me from the Dr. Evil school of General Managing that thinks if the Tigers are not in contention for the post season come the trade deadline 2017, the Tigers should trade Upton and I would talk loudly to Mr. Bigglesworth in front of Upton's locker as Upton is packing to remember that the Tigers can and do spend GENEROUSLY on free agents especially when the player declines their contractual option to stay with a new team....wink.... wink.....(Teams are not supposed to interfering with a player's contractual status like this,...I know!).  It would suck not to be in contention for 2017 playoffs and have to trade Upton for a good, young prospect or two.....and then resign Upton back to the Tigers for 2018 an beyond....and not have to give up a draft pick for signing Upton for 2018 either....
 

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Had a discussion regarding Red Sox OF Jackie Bradley Jr with a guy today. I couldn’t remember his name and kept calling him Jackie Joyner Junior but finally settled on Florence Griffith Junior. I’m not a fan of people who insist on using the Junior or Senior as part of their name. It’s like, “Oh, thanks for telling me you’re Jackie Bradley Junior. ‘Cause I thought you were Senator Bill Bradley’s son. Or General Omar Bradley’s son. Or Milton Bradley’s son.” Yeah.  Dude will never get a high school named after him now, cause it would be Jackie Bradley Jr High School. That does not work. His loss.

 

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I don't like that either. There's a guy at work who puts II in his email signature. Unless your last name is Ford that's not necessary in our business.

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Yes, if your dad doesn't work at the same company as you do there's no need to put Jr. in your signature.  Guys like that wish that they could be knights or dukes.

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interestingly, I knew a man who had a relatively famous father (at least locally to where he lived) and he used his "Jr" all his life, and even all the years of his life after his father had passed. I'm pretty sure that for him it had nothing to do with other people's view or any pretensions, it was just a kind of passive aggressive way to say "I am not my father".

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5 hours ago, ballmich said:

I'm not terribly concerned about it.  First it requires that Upton opts out, and that we don't work out an extension with JD.  But if that happens and all three were to leave after 2017, we'd have $43 million to spend on replacements.   Should be enough to splurge on two very good OF's. 

I personally believe that we can extend JD pretty easily if we wanted to, as he has a good relationship with Avila, and has stated that he likes playing in Detroit. It's a matter of whether we can find room under whatever our payroll limitations we have, to do it.

Maybin had a great season, and his option seems like a good move right now, but 2016 is a clear outlier and $9 million isn't cheap.  I don't mind if he leaves after 2017.  Of course if he has a huge 2017 season, I may think differently, but I'm not expecting that.

Not to mention you theoretically have Gerber/Stewart ready to take one of those spots. 

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Any chance we sign JD long term with the vision of moving him to first and Cabrera DH once V-Mart's contract expires?  

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Any chance we sign JD long term with the vision of moving him to first and Cabrera DH once V-Mart's contract expires?  

 JD's IF experience consists of 3 games at 1B in A ball 2009. I will guess he would be a disaster on ground balls.

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Did TBS and FOX already start sending their actors to the Cleveland game for the in game promos of their upcoming shows?

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11 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Any chance we sign JD long term with the vision of moving him to first and Cabrera DH once V-Mart's contract expires?  

I wouldn't rule that out, nor would I rule out JD being the primary DH and 4th/5th OF option.

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