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Sydney_Fife

2016 Offseason

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Verlander deserves to be traded to a contender if we go this route. I'd hate it, he's my favorite athlete in all of sports, but he deserves a shot at a ring while he's still an Ace. Cabrera already has a ring and a generational contract... I'm okay with keeping him around to watch him break records and retire a Tiger. We could even be competitive while he's still productive.  ****, he could pull an Ortiz and be great for the entirety of his contract, and we should be well rebuilt by then. 

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1 hour ago, ballmich said:

That's not true.  The Blue Jays were known to have a very deep system and the Tigers got their #1, #4 and #7 prospects. 

No one has said they would get "3 ML ready studs" for JD.  Very few teams even have "3 ML ready studs" in their system.  But I see no reason they shouldn't get a similar package to the Price trade, which would be a very good return despite the fact that most ML for prospect deals never pan out for the teams getting the prospects. 

BA didnt even have Boyd or Labourt in their top 10.  MLB had Labourt at 16 and Boyd wasnt even in the top 20.  Sickles had them as C+ prospects. 

If we get a similar package for JD, we just got robbed.

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27 minutes ago, Sydney_Fife said:

They landed a very intriguing guy for Soria.... you never know with prospects. Value is never going to be higher so you have to pull the trigger.... because he won't be around in 2018

I think it was because it was a mid season trade.  Pirates were more desperate.

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1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's always seemed odd to me that if you are willing to spend a lot at the MLB level, you wouldn't also have built a great MiLB system but it hasn't worked that way for the Tigs....

I think teams in general have similar systems and you can't develop players better by throwing more money at it.

Beyond that you start to get into MLB politics as we see with all the caps and unlimited funding like you see with the Dodgers in Cuba.

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1 minute ago, Oblong said:

This all tells me that Mike Ilitch will be dead by Christmas. It's illogical to not go for it one more year. Lots coming off the books after 2017. That would have been the off season to "reboot". Even if this turn ends up being successful will Mike be around to see it? Wouldn't shock me if Mike is already bed ridden and out of it.

that would fit the facts objectively, but OTOH, if he is that near passing I'm not sure that having a presser like this about team direction makes all that much sense.

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1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

I think it was because it was a mid season trade.  Pirates were more desperate.

Teams can be more desperate but there's also fewer of them. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't think Pitt was desperate for Soria. Jacoby was not a super prospect and was expendable.

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3 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

I think teams in general have similar systems and you can't develop players better by throwing more money at it.

Beyond that you start to get into MLB politics as we see with all the caps and unlimited funding like you see with the Dodgers in Cuba.

You have a point that you can't 'throw money' at scouting directly, but but it seems to me you can still out compete the other teams in putting more eyeballs you trust in more places and that does cost a certain amount of money.

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6 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Teams can be more desperate but there's also fewer of them. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't think Pitt was desperate for Soria. Jacoby was not a super prospect and was expendable.

My only point was that Jones was a more highly regarded and accomplished prospect than Betancourt.  I doubt we'd get a prospect like Jones, but I'm all for it.  

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I love Cabrera/JV, but keeping them to be an 80 win team would be the most pointless thing ever. If they think they can trade just Ian and JD and somehow make the playoffs next year, fine, but I don't think that's possible. Anything short of the playoffs and they will have been better off moving JV/Cabrera, IMO. 

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22 minutes ago, DubTownTigersFan said:

This is also a great off-season to be selling, especially pitching. That probably has something to do with this announcement. 

The problem is I think teams are less likely to take on huge contracts. 

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But congrats to Joe Jimenez on the fact that he likely just made next year's opening day roster. 

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7 minutes ago, Yoda said:

I love Cabrera/JV, but keeping them to be an 80 win team would be the most pointless thing ever. If they think they can trade just Ian and JD and somehow make the playoffs next year, fine, but I don't think that's possible. Anything short of the playoffs and they will have been better off moving JV/Cabrera, IMO. 

Next year is not without hope given the starting pitching core. (if it's still here by then.....) They could give up a chunk of offense from the 2016 team and still have a better run differential if they had OFs who could catch and throw and run - and of course also depending on if for once they had some reasonable luck with BP pitchers.

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Can't wait for the Tigers to get rid of the cool guy they got for nothing in order to get some crappy prospect to take his place. Yeah, let's give 600 PAs to Steven Moya or Jacoby Jones or whatever stupid trash can player the Tigers pick up next. 2017 catch the fever. Give me 30 Mike Pelfrey starts too

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20 minutes ago, Yoda said:

I love Cabrera/JV, but keeping them to be an 80 win team would be the most pointless thing ever. If they think they can trade just Ian and JD and somehow make the playoffs next year, fine, but I don't think that's possible. Anything short of the playoffs and they will have been better off moving JV/Cabrera, IMO. 

Trading Cabrera/JV would make the Tigers pointless to watch.

Plus these guys will probably still be our 2 best players in 2018, 2019, 2020.

Might as well get the Lions to trade Stafford by this logic.

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34 minutes ago, Yoda said:

I love Cabrera/JV, but keeping them to be an 80 win team would be the most pointless thing ever. If they think they can trade just Ian and JD and somehow make the playoffs next year, fine, but I don't think that's possible. Anything short of the playoffs and they will have been better off moving JV/Cabrera, IMO. 

Love you man, but no.  Keeping these guys is the prime reason to keep watching this team if they are not in win-now mode.

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I'd rather they become an on again off again team with the two aging greats than to see them become an Avila/Brad monster from top to bottom right away by trading away their two best guys.

JV is the last link to the 2006 team and a good shot to be a wire to wire Tiger HoFer.  Keep him....and Miggy.

If they had proven management and an owner in his prime with a passion for winning (Tigers c 2002), I'd feel differently.  

This feels like an owner who is trying to get the team back into the black for the hand off the Chris....regardless of whether they are poised to compete again or not....so they night as well keep the two best ticket sellers the have.

It was a good run of WS class baseball..thanks Mr I, DD, Leyland, JV, Miggy.

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I want them to keep JV and Cabrera for selfish reasons, that and I think they will still be good in a few years.

With that said I don't think you hang on to them just for PR reasons or the fact that the team would be unwatchable without them.  I don't think you should run a team like that.  

If you think by trading them that it will be best for the team long term and give them a better bet at a championship down the road then do it.  

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5 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I want them to keep JV and Cabrera for selfish reasons, that and I think they will still be good in a few years.

With that said I don't think you hang on to them just for PR reasons or the fact that the team would be unwatchable without them.  I don't think you should run a team like that.  

If you think by trading them that it will be best for the team long term and give them a better bet at a championship down the road then do it.  

Healthy fan perception has a lot to do with running a franchise.

Would you root as hard for a team you didn't like?

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The Red Wings will be mediocre-bad over the next three seasons, at least.  I doubt Mike, nor Chris, wants the Tigers to follow suit.  Again, Avila said nothing of the sort in today's presser that suggests we're rebuilding.  A lot of doomsday scenarios going on here, I believe unwarranted.  

Ill even go out on the limb and suggest we win the AL Central next year.  (Mic drop)

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6 minutes ago, Who is the Drizzle? said:

Healthy fan perception has a lot to do with running a franchise.

Would you root as hard for a team you didn't like?

Sure I probably wouldn't watch as much the next couple years if they were winning 70 games instead of 80 because they don't have Cabrera or Verlander.  But winning changes everything, if you have to deal with a couple years of less fans to have a better chance of sustained success after that than I think you need to do it. 

 Again though I personally don't think they would get enough for them for it to be worth it because I still think they will be quality players throughout their contracts, but if hypothetically they did get a great package for them then I think you need to do it for the betterment of your franchise long term. 

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3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Sure I probably wouldn't watch as much the next couple years if they were winning 70 games instead of 80 because they don't have Cabrera or Verlander.  But winning changes everything, if you have to deal with a couple years of less fans to have a better chance of sustained success after that than I think you need to do it. 

 Again though I personally don't think they would get enough for them for it to be worth it because I still think they will be quality players throughout their contracts, but if hypothetically they did get a great package for them then I think you need to do it for the betterment of your franchise long term. 

If some team wants to pay us in prospects for what these guys provide both in terms of winning and marketing, then sure. You never say never.

It's got to be more than just helping us win a game or two down the road or because we want to tank for a draft pick or something.

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Verlander is my favorite Tiger ever apart from Fidrych and Trammell. Winning the World Series without JV leading the charge would be as if the Wings had won the Cup having traded Yzerman two summers earlier as had been rumoured. I mean of course I'd take it, but it wouldn't be quite the same. But I understand that there's a decent chance a JV trade will happen. Needless to say I hope it's for a really good haul.

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