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Sydney_Fife

2016 Offseason

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34 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

If we finish .500, we may be sunk for half a decade

But if they trade JD, it will bring them championships.  

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2 minutes ago, tater6 said:

Anyone have news on Zimm's health? Has he recovered?

He is supposedly recovered, but we won't know much until he starts pitching games.  Can he stay healthy?  Is his velocity back?

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13 hours ago, Buddha said:

1) WAR is a stupid stat.

WAR, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

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10 minutes ago, davidsb said:

WAR, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

War, war is stupid and people are stupid
And love means nothing in some strange quarters
War, war is stupid and people are stupid
And I heard them banging on hearts and fingers
War

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

I'd take Stumpf and a Wilson trade if it brought something better than Cessa

It would be nice if we could at least re-coup something on par with Cessa/Green which we gave up for JWilson. That said, trading JWilson likely doesn't solve any problems for us financially or with building depth.  And I'm not sure if we are that desparate for two rotation depth pieces.  Unless JWilson brings us more than I expect him to, which is possible I guess.

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52 minutes ago, ballmich said:

Which LHH C?  There is not much to choose from.

Avila. 

Funny thing is that this is probably where the Avila connection might hurt us. It wasn't because we were going to over pay for Alex before or because there was serious criticism of him being on the team, esp after they brought up McCann to compete with him,  No - where it might hurt is now because Al is probably not going to push Alex as hard to make up his mind if he has an offer out to him as he would someone else, and we might end up missing on a back-up catcher completely if Al had been looking toward Alex but Alex gets a late offer he likes better.

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9 minutes ago, ballmich said:

It would be nice if we could at least re-coup something on par with Cessa/Green which we gave up for JWilson. That said, trading JWilson likely doesn't solve any problems for us financially or with building depth.  And I'm not sure if we are that desparate for two rotation depth pieces.  Unless JWilson brings us more than I expect him to, which is possible I guess.

SOmeone would have to overpay for me to trade him. 

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Funny thing is that this is probably where the Avila connection might hurt us. It wasn't because we were going to over pay for Alex before or because there was serious criticism of him being on the team, esp after they brought up McCann to compete with him,  No - where it might hurt is now because Al is probably not going to push Alex as hard to make up his mind if he has an offer out to him as he would someone else, and we might end up missing on a back-up catcher completely if Al had been looking toward Alex but Alex gets a late offer he likes better.

Speculative.

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38 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

He is supposedly recovered, but we won't know much until he starts pitching games.  Can he stay healthy?  Is his velocity back?

He's due another injection still though right?

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43 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

But if they trade JD, it will bring them championships.  

Yes, those are the two scenarios.......

YOu know what sucks though? Having NOrris,Boyd,Fulmer and Jones. Austin Jackson and Max Scherzer sucked too. 

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I can read the CF situation a couple of ways right now: Maybe Al A. is just an incompetent dealer who overvalues his own players to the point where he can't make a deal, or; they are more sold on Jones than they have really said out loud and so don't feel all that much pressure to pull the trigger on a CF deal they don't love.

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3 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Yes, those are the two scenarios.......

YOu know what sucks though? Having NOrris,Boyd,Fulmer and Jones. Austin Jackson and Max Scherzer sucked too. 

They never suggested there was going to be a fire sale.  They are probably shopping JD due to his contract ending after the year.  Is what they could get for JD really the difference between being sunk for half a decade and being a championship caliber team? 

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8 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I can read the CF situation a couple of ways right now: Maybe Al A. is just an incompetent dealer who overvalues his own players to the point where he can't make a deal, or; they are more sold on Jones than they have really said out loud and so don't feel all that much pressure to pull the trigger on a CF deal they don't love.

Maybe they are just waiting out the market a bit?  Avila did say that they might consider a stop gap guy for around $2 million.... 

Guys like Revere, Gregor Blanco, Bourjos, Rajai, Fuld, Gentry, AJax.  We could even roll the dice on guys like Stubbs, Crisp, Bourn, etc 

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They never suggested there was going to be a fire sale.  They are probably shopping JD due to his contract ending after the year.  Is what they could get for JD really the difference between being sunk for half a decade and being a championship caliber team? 

It depends on what you think you they could get for JD? I'm sure they have their sights set on fulmer and Cessa type return.

If they somehow held JD and then let him walk while remaining above the luxury tax, they be in decidedly worse shape going forward in 2018 and beyond than if they traded him.

I think it's a valid concern.

Trading JD isn't going to magically make them sustained contenders, but every bit counts. If they end up battling with multiple teams for a wild card down the stretch and hold everyone, that could turn out very bad.

There is also the consideration of how much less likely they are to contend this year in the event they trade JD. It would be a harder thing to achieve of course, but not impossible.

My preference is to get under the tax while holding JD and Ian. I think it's possible, and would give them the chance to delay a decision on trading them.

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They could also trade JD for somebody who they think will be like Fulmer and he turns out to be Bill Pusipher.  Now, if they did do a firesale, you could bet that at least a couple of the prospects will pan out.  However, then you are probably not going to win in 17 and 18 and you hope that Cabrera is still good at that point and that you have enough young players to build around him.  The problem is they don't have the types of players/contracts the White Sox have that are likely to bring back a big enough haul to transform the future of the franchise.  

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The Indians will be good next year, but there's no way we play that poorly against them again. 

The Royals trading Davis helps us, and I'm not really as afraid of them as I used to be. They'll contend, but I think we can be better. 

Chicago is punting on 2017 but they're going to be a force in the future. 

Twins are bad. No pitching. 

You look at the division and consider that you play almost half your games against these teams.... why not just go for it one more season and let all those contracts expire afterward. The only one you'd miss out on getting something for would he JD and I think it's clear he isn't going to bring back the kind of return we would like. 

Stand pat. Go find a centerfielder somehow that swings from the left side. Sign a cheap backup C that swings from the left side. Can unload Pelfrey or Sanchez to a team looking for rotation help. 

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I can read the CF situation a couple of ways right now: Maybe Al A. is just an incompetent dealer who overvalues his own players to the point where he can't make a deal, or; they are more sold on Jones than they have really said out loud and so don't feel all that much pressure to pull the trigger on a CF deal they don't love.

Indians signed Rajai Dec 16 last year, Napoli on Jan 5. As ballmich pointed out, there are a lot of CFs that could work, so the Tigers can wait for the music to stop and be the last empty chair.

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43 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Still does. He probably always will.

I almost built this into my original post. 

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

They never suggested there was going to be a fire sale.  They are probably shopping JD due to his contract ending after the year.  Is what they could get for JD really the difference between being sunk for half a decade and being a championship caliber team? 

No, but due to our farm system and some long term commitments on the books totalling near 100 mil, we aren't going to have much ability to improve post 2017, especially if we lose JD(we dont' even get a first now). If you trade a few guys now while they still have value, you could only tank 2017. If you wait, you probably tank 2018-2020 Atlanta/CHicago/Houston style in order to build a new contender.  find the latter situation to be less desirable, especially when evidence suggests that going for it this year isn't likely to work out. 

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48 minutes ago, Shelton said:

It depends on what you think you they could get for JD? I'm sure they have their sights set on fulmer and Cessa type return.

If they somehow held JD and then let him walk while remaining above the luxury tax, they be in decidedly worse shape going forward in 2018 and beyond than if they traded him.

I think it's a valid concern.

Trading JD isn't going to magically make them sustained contenders, but every bit counts. If they end up battling with multiple teams for a wild card down the stretch and hold everyone, that could turn out very bad.

There is also the consideration of how much less likely they are to contend this year in the event they trade JD. It would be a harder thing to achieve of course, but not impossible.

My preference is to get under the tax while holding JD and Ian. I think it's possible, and would give them the chance to delay a decision on trading them.

I agree.  My biggest disagreement in the thread is the thought that we are doomed in 2018 and beyond if we don't trade for prospects now.

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