Sydney_Fife

Fire Jim Caldwell

102 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, EchO said:

I understand this line of thinking, I just don't agree. To me that line of thinking is like defending Stalin because he wasn't as bad as Hitler. For the record, I'm not saying you in particular are doing this, but just because Mayhew wasn't as bad as literally the worst sports executive in the history of...sports...doesn't mean he was good or worthy of defending: he was terrible, just not historically terrible.

Bob Quinn is under contract for 5 years. Let's say he doesn't make the playoffs during the 5 years he is the Lions GM. How would you rank him? Worse than Mayhew? He has to make major changes for them to make the playoffs in a year or so. 

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1 hour ago, nd1377 said:

Bob Quinn is under contract for 5 years. Let's say he doesn't make the playoffs during the 5 years he is the Lions GM. How would you rank him? Worse than Mayhew? He has to make major changes for them to make the playoffs in a year or so. 

Five years should be more than enough time to transition to a playoff team. If he doesn't make the playoffs over 5 years he will absolutely be seen as a failure. In regards to where exactly he ranked, that would be more difficult. Mayhew was able to take an 0-16 to a wildcard berth largely due to the fact that he has multiple top draft picks to work with and could mold the team to his liking (i.e. able to pick multiple franchise players including the franchise QB)...Quinn will likely be unable to do that and instead has to work with Mayhew's scraps (for the record, I don't think Stafford is terrible so please no one interpreter this the wrong way) like Tomlinson, Ebron, the ghost of Levy, no depth anywhere on the team, etc.

I don't think Quinn has done a great job thus far, but I still think there is at least a chance. But yeah, at this point I really demand playoff wins, making it to a wildcard game and losing isn't going to work anymore.

 

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20 minutes ago, EchO said:

Five years should be more than enough time to transition to a playoff team. If he doesn't make the playoffs over 5 years he will absolutely be seen as a failure. In regards to where exactly he ranked, that would be more difficult. Mayhew was able to take an 0-16 to a wildcard berth largely due to the fact that he has multiple top draft picks to work with and could mold the team to his liking (i.e. able to pick multiple franchise players including the franchise QB)...Quinn will likely be unable to do that and instead has to work with Mayhew's scraps (for the record, I don't think Stafford is terrible so please no one interpreter this the wrong way) like Tomlinson, Ebron, the ghost of Levy, no depth anywhere on the team, etc.

I don't think Quinn has done a great job thus far, but I still think there is at least a chance. But yeah, at this point I really demand playoff wins, making it to a wildcard game and losing isn't going to work anymore.

 

Every season, Quinn is going to get draft picks based on how good/bad the Lions are. Do you think the team Mayhew inherited that just went 0-16 had depth, talent, etc? If I remember correctly, there were a bunch of ex garbage Tampa Bay players that Marinelli brought in. 

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Just now, nd1377 said:

Every season, Quinn is going to get draft picks based on how good/bad the Lions are. Do you think the team Mayhew inherited that just went 0-16 had depth, talent, etc? If I remember correctly, there were a bunch of ex garbage Tampa Bay players that Marinelli brought in. 

No, I don't think the 0-16 team had much depth or talent...but it did offer Mayhew a ton of concurrent high draft picks (that Quinn likely won't have), the ability to draft a franchise QB and multiple other franchise players.

I guess I'm curious as to what point you are trying to make? Do you think Mayhew did a good job?

If we had Jon Kitna as our QB last year, how many games do you think we win? While I would definitely say the 2015 team was better than the 2008 team; I think that is largely due to Matthew Stafford. I don't think Mayhew left Quinn with a bunch of options (outside of Stafford and Ansah).

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2 hours ago, EchO said:

No, I don't think the 0-16 team had much depth or talent...but it did offer Mayhew a ton of concurrent high draft picks (that Quinn likely won't have), the ability to draft a franchise QB and multiple other franchise players.

I guess I'm curious as to what point you are trying to make? Do you think Mayhew did a good job?

If we had Jon Kitna as our QB last year, how many games do you think we win? While I would definitely say the 2015 team was better than the 2008 team; I think that is largely due to Matthew Stafford. I don't think Mayhew left Quinn with a bunch of options (outside of Stafford and Ansah).

The point I am trying to make is that the 2008 Detroit Lions team was an amazing team that won the preseason championship at 4-0 and then went 0-16. It is an amazing accomplishment that we will probably never see again.

The real point I am trying to make:

IMHO, I don't think Mayhew was as bad as some make him out to be. I just hope Quinn pans out. I am tired of this team being pure garbage. 

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1 hour ago, nd1377 said:

The point I am trying to make is that the 2008 Detroit Lions team was an amazing team that won the preseason championship at 4-0 and then went 0-16. It is an amazing accomplishment that we will probably never see again.

The real point I am trying to make:

IMHO, I don't think Mayhew was as bad as some make him out to be. I just hope Quinn pans out. I am tired of this team being pure garbage. 

Yeah, well that debate is kind of played out, IMO and I am okay with just agreeing to disagree. I'm not saying he was as bad as Millen but I don't think anyone outside of Detroit would ever claim Mayhew was an average let alone above average GM. By and large, you aren't going to have a winning franchise with sustained success if you have a below average GM. He got close to winning a playoff game due to all the top picks and once in a generation type talents (Johnson, Suh to an extent) and once he mismanaged the cap as bad as he did the team plummeted.

So again, not the worst ever...just below average and that shouldn't be celebrated or defended, IMO.

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Ugh. Martin Mayhew again...

Re: Quinn- Are there any players we would rather have had at #16 than Taylor Decker? Seems like that pick improved both LT and RT, and has made the OL much better. A'Shawn Robinson was thought by many to be a mid-1st round selection. I'm disappointed that the only other of his picks who has gotten significant playing time - on a thin team - is Dwayne Washington. Presumably if there is an OL injury, Glasgow or Dahl can adequately replace. Marvin Jones has been a home run, but his other FA signings have washed out.

Of course, my feelings about Quinn would improve dramatically if he fired Caldwell.

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3 hours ago, Jason_R said:

........Seems like that pick improved both LT and RT, and has made the OL much better........

I am not so sure about this. I guess being able to put up only 6 offensive points against a terrible Chicago team is still fresh in my mind. 

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TBF, O-Line picks can take a couple years to prove out, but I don't see much improvement in overall depth either...

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5 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Ugh. Martin Mayhew again...

Re: Quinn- Are there any players we would rather have had at #16 than Taylor Decker? Seems like that pick improved both LT and RT, and has made the OL much better. A'Shawn Robinson was thought by many to be a mid-1st round selection. I'm disappointed that the only other of his picks who has gotten significant playing time - on a thin team - is Dwayne Washington. Presumably if there is an OL injury, Glasgow or Dahl can adequately replace. Marvin Jones has been a home run, but his other FA signings have washed out.

Of course, my feelings about Quinn would improve dramatically if he fired Caldwell.

I'm ok with giving Quinn some **** for his depth guys he signed, but it doesn't affect how I grade him a ton. He took a shot at all the best vet min types he could find. Most of them didn't work out, and I wish more had, but there's only so much you can expect. For one, we needed bodies, but also I think its key to understand that he's setting up our cap for the long term. Not one guy Quinn signed will hurt us with significant dead money or anything of the like. 

As for the draft, I hope to see more. Dahl and Glasgow were always going to be backups for this year, but I hope for more out of Kilebrew at the least, and for Robinson to keep getting better.

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I wouldn't be surprised if Caldwell is fired sometime during the season, but if I were in charge I'd wait until the season is over mostly because I don't think they have anyone on staff I'd want to replace him - & if I let him go I have to deal with the obligatory "Let's keep XXXX on as coach" after the season.  If I'm Bob Quinn I'd want an entire season to evaluate.  If he's not, then you have more options to draw from without the added question of keeping on the interim coach.

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As one of the bigger Caldwell detractors, I have to admit, this is now 2 straight games with no glaring tactical errors. He was again uncharacteristically aggressive, and it paid off. Our defense still blows, and even devoid of talent, it should be better, but I don't place that solely on him. 

I still hope he is evaluated at the end of the season and let go if there is someone better around. 

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7 hours ago, hardyaf said:

As one of the bigger Caldwell detractors, I have to admit, this is now 2 straight games with no glaring tactical errors. He was again uncharacteristically aggressive, and it paid off. Our defense still blows, and even devoid of talent, it should be better, but I don't place that solely on him. 

I still hope he is evaluated at the end of the season and let go if there is someone better around. 

I have to agree.  The biggest thing I didn't see yesterday was the Rams changing things up after halftime and the Lions not having an answer for it.

I was a little disappointed with some of the play calling.  Too many runs up the gut that were getting no where... especially in those obvious running downs where it was 2nd and short.  There was enough evidence to show the Rams were stopping that play whenever they needed too... so stop running it.

The defense was also telling too many Rams receivers become wide open so I would have liked to see some mixing up of defensive scheme there.

But, over all, relatively solid coaching performance with, as you said, no glaring tactical errors.

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Is it coaching or does it all come down to Stafford playing like an elite NFL QB? If he doesn't play like an elite NFL QB, they probably don't win the past two games. 

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4 hours ago, nd1377 said:

Is it coaching or does it all come down to Stafford playing like an elite NFL QB? If he doesn't play like an elite NFL QB, they probably don't win the past two games. 

My point was even if they had lost, I wouldn't have had anything horrible to write about Caldwell. Just giving the man some props since I have been pretty vocal how bad I think he is. 

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I have to agree.  The biggest thing I didn't see yesterday was the Rams changing things up after halftime and the Lions not having an answer for it.

Ha! The Rams didn't need to change anything up... the Lions made Case Keenum into a HOF caliber QB in the first half, and allowed him to remain so in the second! ;-)

The only change was that in the last drive, Case Keenum realized, "Wait a minute... I'm Case Keenum!" And he promptly threw a lame duck into triple coverage. Kind of like when you're having a dream where you're flying, then your dream self realizes you can't fly and plummets from the sky, and you wake up in a panic.

In fairness to Caldwell, though, if you're game planning the Rams you want to commit the resources to bottle up Gurley, and that's what the team did. The lack of a pass rush was shocking, especially with Ansah back (but clearly not near 100%), so even though this was the right strategic decision, the team's execution left much to be desired. But the defense made the two stops they needed to, to end both halves.

Also, kudos to the coaching staff for getting Tate's head back in the game. Fans often overreact to things like this, but clearly the team has helped him stay focused and involved.

Finally, I noticed Andre Roberts take the knee. Coaching?

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Can we sum up the Lions with the following statements?

Stafford plays at an elite level = Lions win 

Stafford plays average = Lions lose 

Is it as easy as that for the Lions?

Yesterday, what can you say? Stafford was great. His stats would have been even better if he didn't have 4 or so dropped passes. 

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59 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Finally, I noticed Andre Roberts take the knee. Coaching?

How Roberts is the punt / kickoff return man of any NFL team is one of life's greatest mysteries.

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1 hour ago, Euphdude said:

How Roberts is the punt / kickoff return man of any NFL team is one of life's greatest mysteries.

TJ Jones could be at least a little better than Roberts. Caldwell must love Roberts for some reason. 

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Unless you have a truly elite return man, I don't think it really matters. I've said it before but a handful of yards here and there lost in starting field position doesn't mean much to me.

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Roberts seems solid as a punt returner, and I can understand not wanting to have two specialists. If he can add a little on offense (like the TD this week) they might as well keep him around.


But his kick returns are garbage, just take a knee man.

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8 hours ago, Jason_R said:

 

In fairness to Caldwell, though, if you're game planning the Rams you want to commit the resources to bottle up Gurley, and that's what the team did. The lack of a pass rush was shocking, especially with Ansah back (but clearly not near 100%), so even though this was the right strategic decision, the team's execution left much to be desired. But the defense made the two stops they needed to, to end both halves.

 

Hyder is our only DL who rates higher than a 50 on PFF's 100 point scale. He's a 75, which is basically average. Pretty brutal. 

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16 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Ha! The Rams didn't need to change anything up... the Lions made Case Keenum into a HOF caliber QB in the first half, and allowed him to remain so in the second! ;-)

----

Finally, I noticed Andre Roberts take the knee. Coaching?

Well, on offense, yes, I agree.  But on Defense the Lions were as unstoppable as the Rams.  The Rams, if they made a change, didn't improve on defense in the second half.

And yes, I did notice the knee... but there was also one he took out after being about a yard deep and only got to the 18 I think.

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On 10/17/2016 at 3:39 PM, nd1377 said:

Can we sum up the Lions with the following statements?

Stafford plays at an elite level = Lions win 

Stafford plays average = Lions lose 

Is it as easy as that for the Lions?

Yesterday, what can you say? Stafford was great. His stats would have been even better if he didn't have 4 or so dropped passes. 

Which is why you pay him.

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No challenging that fumble is as bad as kicking off in overtime. 

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