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2016 Prediction Thread

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10 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Yeah, but don't you think after the basic mistakes that Caldwell made that can directly lead to two losses and probably the loss of your greatest player since Barry Sanders would be enough for a coaching change?    Do you really think that Bob Quinn came into his first shot at GM and didn't want to bring his own guy?    I don't know, unless he's an absolute genius and totally is allowing this to tank to get things his way.   But you know that ownership won't leave him to do his job - you know that.   

Personally, I think that Quinn came in to late to be able to reasonable do anything with the coaching staff.  I think there were parts to the staff he wanted to evaluate directly (Austin and Cooter), and I think that Mrs Ford let it be known that she liked Caldwell.

I think all this added up to the fact that it made sense to keep Caldwell one more year.  Kinda like the Stafford problem, if you're replacing the entire front office, maybe you not worry about everything the first year.

So, I dunno... I'm still up in the air about the Mrs.  Like I said, she's got a questionable track record so far in her young tenure of owning the Lions.  I'm not convinced that she'll be any better than her late husband, but the fact that she fired the front office, in the middle of the season, means that she's at the very least, not a total carbon copy of her husband.

Ownership, at least WCF, was never a meddler.  His problem was not hiring the right people in the front office and then saying loyal to them too long.  There aren't any credible stories of Ford messing around and forcing a GM to do what he wanted against the GM judgement.  So I don't know that ownership will meddle.  Maybe Mrs. Ford will... maybe that'll be a good thing (probably not).

Look, I'm not saying that Mrs. Ford, Wood, or Quinn will be the saviors of the Lions. Like you I'm quite jaded so I tend to lean towards them NOT being the saviors.  But I'm willing to give them a shot... cause really what else can I do?  I can't give up my fandom...

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22 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

This team is awful.   I know we aren't supposed to put too much into exhibition season games, but they just look pathetic.   But you know, I think that's probably what Bob Quinn wants right now.   If they are dreadful then he gets to pull it apart and rebuild it.

What Quinn doesn't realize is whatever vision he has is going to get corrupted by the Ford Family and their henchmen(women) and Quinn won't get to do what he wants.   Do I think Quinn wants to sign Stafford to a 6 or 7 year mega deal?   No, I don't.   Stafford is not going to just suddenly become a great QB.   He's an above average QB with flashes of "Why can't he do that all the time?".   

To me this team looks to be 3-13 or maybe 4-12.  Its a shame because the schedule could not be more favorable for them this year.  The two predetermined divisions are both weak.    The AFC south does not have a powerhouse team.   The Colts, Texans and Jaguars all look to be in the 7 to 9 win range.  The Titans are garbage.    The NFC East wasn't great even before Romo went down.  I thought the Cowboys were way overrated before that, now they look like a 7 to 9 win team along with Washington and maybe, MAYBE the Giants (more like 6 to 8) with the Eagles being one of the worst teams in the NFL.  Their strength of schedule games of New Orleans and Los Angeles are both iffy.  New Orleans is old, but its a road game and Los Angeles is hard to tell.  They have talent, but seem to be like the Texans - never having the QB to go over the top. 

For them to have even a fighting chance of going .500 this year they have to have nearly perfect seasons from Ansah, Levy, Taylor and Slay.   I doubt they all stay healthy.    

I think they go 4-12 with wins vs. Philadelphia, New Orleans, Tennessee and Washington.  They will go 0-6 in division this year.  

Caldwell fired, Patricia hired in 2017.    Quinn gets the Lionized look on his face (regret plus bewilderment) by November 2018.  By the 2019 season we will realize its not going to work.   The Fords will force Brian Kelly on Quinn and the rest of us in 2020.  Brian Kelly will be a complete disaster with the players and media, remind many of Millen.  He'll get two years and be kicked out after the 2021 season along with Quinn.   The Lions will then offer the GM/Coach job to Jim Harbaugh who has won 2 national championships at Michigan (2018 & 2021).  They'll offer him 20 million a year - and he'll turn them down, because Harbaugh's a winner and he'll go coach the Las Vegas Raiders.  Meanwhile Teryl Austin will be hired by the Rams after this season and by his third year will have them in or close to a Super Bowl. 

A negative post by MCS. No that is not a surprised looked on my face.  It is pure speculation (and likely wrong) that the henchmen are calling the shots for Quinn, it's his show.  The rest of this post is too nonsensical to merit a point my point rebuke.   

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1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

Also, it's too early to know how Mrs. Ford will handle things.  I don't blame you at all for feeling it'll be SOL cause I feel that too, but I think we need to at least give her a bit of the benefit of the doubt until she proves us wrong.  Right now results are mixed.

This SOL mantra has never made any sense to me. Why choose to be so blatantly negative for a new season, I think there are people who would rather the Lions use just so they can say "LOLIONS."  And to suggest that the results on Martha are mixed...how?  She fired everyone involved with roster construction, hired a guy from the patriots, and has by most accounts, stayed out of football management.  If Quinn turns out to stink, well at least she is trying something different, i.e. hiring a guy from a quality organization. 

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Can't we at least wait until they get blown out by the Colts to say this team is terrible (I mean, I prefer to see them play at home first, but whatever)? I am stunned how much people are reading into the preseason game either way. Bottom line: if they had looked incredible all 3 games, surely everyone here who is being negative would have said, "lol, it's just the preseason". I mean, yeah, I wish they had looked better too, but it is just the preseason. We have no idea what they were trying to work on in that game. 

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25 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

This SOL mantra has never made any sense to me. Why choose to be so blatantly negative for a new season, I think there are people who would rather the Lions use just so they can say "LOLIONS."  And to suggest that the results on Martha are mixed...how?  She fired everyone involved with roster construction, hired a guy from the patriots, and has by most accounts, stayed out of football management.  If Quinn turns out to stink, well at least she is trying something different, i.e. hiring a guy from a quality organization. 

I disagree with nearly all of this. I highly doubt there are any people who post here who want the Lions to lose (aside from losing to get a better draft pick in a blown season). Even those of us who are most negative WANT the team to win, we just accept the fact that the franchise is not at a point where we are just one or two pieces away from contending and moreover, we haven't been one or two pieces from contending for the last 50+ years, it's frustrating especially when ownership continually puts the franchise in less than optimal scenarios.

The results on Martha are the near definition of mixed. Yeah, she fired everyone involved with roster construction (even though that should have been done multiple years ago)...but then she still seems to have the same desire to keep "her" people around the franchise. The Wood hiring comes to mind, and the fact that he himself admitted he wasn't fit to run any other organization other than the Lions speaks volumes. She also wanted to keep Caldwell...I mean talk about an uninspiring coach who just looks lost out there. Caldwell has done NOTHING to inspire any confidence that he can take THIS team (not to be confused with the Manning lead Colts that had already been extremely successful before he became HC) to the promised land. He kept a godawful OC on his staff for WAY too long, has horrible clock management, poor game decisions (hook-and-ladder defense anyone?), he's just an all-around bad game-time HC...and yet he is still "Martha's guy."

And then to add insult to injury, we have Quin who I know still has time to prove his worth but more so than ever I think everyone around the league realizes that just because someone came from the Patriots doesn't mean they will come in and succeed, if anything the opposite has been proven true. That is one reason many people (myself included) didn't want Quin to be given the job...now maybe guys like DeCosta, Tobin, and Wolf weren't available and Quin was the next best option...but the fact that Quin was hired and then forced to keep Martha's guys makes me think that:

  • a) he isn't able to really do his job like he would like
  • b) she, like her husband is too involved in the running of the team
  • c) he was willing to come into a franchise where he knew the owner (a non-football person) was going to be pulling the reigns...if he came to a franchise where he knew he couldn't fully do HIS job to appease the owner, that sounds like a GM who just wants a GM job and is less focused on winning.

Then toss in a very lackluster offseason and an uninspiring draft and it is looking like it could be a situation where we are stuck again with an owner with too much influence on a first time GM who may not be qualified (sound familiar...it should). It's frustrating because once again anyone with even a small amount of objectivity realizes this is not a playoff team, so here we are once again already playing for next season in late August. Cheers to us.

 

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28 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

The 4-0 preseason from 2008 is calling to let you all know how important the pre season is.

So what happened during the season? Did they go on to win the Super Bowl or close to it?

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3 minutes ago, EchO said:

I disagree with nearly all of this. I highly doubt there are any people who post here who want the Lions to lose (aside from losing to get a better draft pick in a blown season). Even those of us who are most negative WANT the team to win, we just accept the fact that the franchise is not at a point where we are just one or two pieces away from contending and moreover, we haven't been one or two pieces from contending for the last 50+ years, it's frustrating especially when ownership continually puts the franchise in less than optimal scenarios.

The results on Martha are the near definition of mixed. Yeah, she fired everyone involved with roster construction (even though that should have been done multiple years ago)...but then she still seems to have the same desire to keep "her" people around the franchise. The Wood hiring comes to mind, and the fact that he himself admitted he wasn't fit to run any other organization other than the Lions speaks volumes. She also wanted to keep Caldwell...I mean talk about an uninspiring coach who just looks lost out there. Caldwell has done NOTHING to inspire any confidence that he can take THIS team (not to be confused with the Manning lead Colts that had already been extremely successful before he became HC) to the promised land. He kept a godawful OC on his staff for WAY too long, has horrible clock management, poor game decisions (hook-and-ladder defense anyone?), he's just an all-around bad game-time HC...and yet he is still "Martha's guy."

And then to add insult to injury, we have Quin who I know still has time to prove his worth but more so than ever I think everyone around the league realizes that just because someone came from the Patriots doesn't mean they will come in and succeed, if anything the opposite has been proven true. That is one reason many people (myself included) didn't want Quin to be given the job...now maybe guys like DeCosta, Tobin, and Wolf weren't available and Quin was the next best option...but the fact that Quin was hired and then forced to keep Martha's guys makes me think that:

  • a) he isn't able to really do his job like he would like
  • b) she, like her husband is too involved in the running of the team
  • c) he was willing to come into a franchise where he knew the owner (a non-football person) was going to be pulling the reigns...if he came to a franchise where he knew he couldn't fully do HIS job to appease the owner, that sounds like a GM who just wants a GM job and is less focused on winning.

Then toss in a very lackluster offseason and an uninspiring draft and it is looking like it could be a situation where we are stuck again with an owner with too much influence on a first time GM who may not be qualified. It's frustrating because once again anyone with even a small amount of objectivity realizes this is not a playoff team, so here we are once again already playing for next season in late August. Cheers to us.

 

See this is the epitome of SOL syndrome.  You aren't speaking factually.  You are just saying that Quinn has no ability to make his own decisions (which is just you guessing), when everything points to him having full control over football operations.  Also, who cares about Wood, he isn't involved with football operations either.  It is tough to take your post seriously when your entire premise is that 90 year martha ford is running the Lions and Quinn is the yes man, that just isn't the case. 

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14 minutes ago, nd1377 said:

So what happened during the season? Did they go on to win the Super Bowl or close to it?

Superbowl baby!  lol  Refs screwed us!

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Can we pump the breaks and wait for this season to play out before we start making rumor and speculation about whether or not Quinn has full authority to keep/replace the coaching staff? I rushed to judgement when Rod Wood was brought in, convincing myself that because he was a Ford crony, Sheldon White was the surefire choice to be our next GM because he was a long-time guy in the organization. I made that speculation about White and I was proven wrong by Martha. She changed it up and did something different.

Now, if at the end of the season this team does indeed have a losing record and Caldwell still has a job next year, we will be able to (if not factually state) speculate more clearly whether or not Bob Quinn has complete control over the coaching staff of this team. I am by no means a Jim Caldwell fan, but maybe Quinn actually did want to take a year and evaluate his coaching staff before firing a guy for the sake of it. This is a new regime, this isn't SOL holdovers from the Millen era running the show. The season needs play out first before we rush to judgement about who is really in charge and who has what power.

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4 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

See this is the epitome of SOL syndrome.  You aren't speaking factually.  You are just saying that Quinn has no ability to make his own decisions (which is just you guessing), when everything points to him having full control over football operations.  Also, who cares about Wood, he isn't involved with football operations either.  It is tough to take your post seriously when your entire premise is that 90 year martha ford is running the Lions and Quinn is the yes man, that just isn't the case. 

I never said she was running the team, I said she was influencing a first time GM. Do I think Martha Ford is the one down there in the war room selecting the draft picks? Absolutely not. Do I think she could be influencing a first time GM to keep an ineffective coach because she "loves" him? Absolutely.

I guess I see it as one of two scenarios:

1) Quin kept Caldwell because Martha Ford went on record as saying she "loves" him.

or

2) Quin on his own accord decided to keep a coach who is known throughout the league to be a poor game manager and not a good head coach (which should be apparent with him not getting another HC gig after getting fired in Indy and then him being rumored to be getting fired as the OC at Baltimore before he hired him due to the Ravens having their worst offensive season with him as the full-time OC).

 2b) If he did knowingly keep a bad HC because he saw it as a "free year" or whatever, that might actually be MORE of an indicator that he is a poor GM considering we would then have to learn a new scheme (with JBC's offense) this year and then ANOTHER new scheme next year with whoever the next HC picks as his OC.

I just don't see how ANY Lions fan can see this offseason as anything other than a huge disappointment.

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21 minutes ago, EchO said:

I disagree with nearly all of this. I highly doubt there are any people who post here who want the Lions to lose (aside from losing to get a better draft pick in a blown season). Even those of us who are most negative WANT the team to win, we just accept the fact that the franchise is not at a point where we are just one or two pieces away from contending and moreover, we haven't been one or two pieces from contending for the last 50+ years, it's frustrating especially when ownership continually puts the franchise in less than optimal scenarios.

The results on Martha are the near definition of mixed. Yeah, she fired everyone involved with roster construction (even though that should have been done multiple years ago)...but then she still seems to have the same desire to keep "her" people around the franchise. The Wood hiring comes to mind, and the fact that he himself admitted he wasn't fit to run any other organization other than the Lions speaks volumes. She also wanted to keep Caldwell...I mean talk about an uninspiring coach who just looks lost out there. Caldwell has done NOTHING to inspire any confidence that he can take THIS team (not to be confused with the Manning lead Colts that had already been extremely successful before he became HC) to the promised land. He kept a godawful OC on his staff for WAY too long, has horrible clock management, poor game decisions (hook-and-ladder defense anyone?), he's just an all-around bad game-time HC...and yet he is still "Martha's guy."

And then to add insult to injury, we have Quin who I know still has time to prove his worth but more so than ever I think everyone around the league realizes that just because someone came from the Patriots doesn't mean they will come in and succeed, if anything the opposite has been proven true. That is one reason many people (myself included) didn't want Quin to be given the job...now maybe guys like DeCosta, Tobin, and Wolf weren't available and Quin was the next best option...but the fact that Quin was hired and then forced to keep Martha's guys makes me think that:

  • a) he isn't able to really do his job like he would like
  • b) she, like her husband is too involved in the running of the team
  • c) he was willing to come into a franchise where he knew the owner (a non-football person) was going to be pulling the reigns...if he came to a franchise where he knew he couldn't fully do HIS job to appease the owner, that sounds like a GM who just wants a GM job and is less focused on winning.

Then toss in a very lackluster offseason and an uninspiring draft and it is looking like it could be a situation where we are stuck again with an owner with too much influence on a first time GM who may not be qualified (sound familiar...it should). It's frustrating because once again anyone with even a small amount of objectivity realizes this is not a playoff team, so here we are once again already playing for next season in late August. Cheers to us.

 

This is largely nonsense. Who exactly are Martha's people? Wood? The guy who has said he isn't running the football side? The lions have done everything that the fans wanted. Whether or not it works, nobody knows. Quinn might totally suck. But lets not pretend Martha isn't doing what we all asked for. 

1) She brought in outside experts to help find someone to give total football control to. They recommended Quinn. We hired him. 

2) They fired pretty much everyone involved with the Mayhew/Millen Regime

Now if you want, you can pretend that Martha demanded Caldwell/Austin/Cooter were kept, but frankly you have no evidence that that is true, wheras they have publicly stated Quinn is in charge. I am wondering, since you think Martha is too involved, what exactly has she done in running the team, football wise?

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

The 4-0 preseason from 2008 is calling to let you all know how important the pre season is.

Preseason matters when we're bad, it doesn't when we're good. Get with the program

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31 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

See this is the epitome of SOL syndrome.  You aren't speaking factually.  You are just saying that Quinn has no ability to make his own decisions (which is just you guessing), when everything points to him having full control over football operations.  Also, who cares about Wood, he isn't involved with football operations either.  It is tough to take your post seriously when your entire premise is that 90 year martha ford is running the Lions and Quinn is the yes man, that just isn't the case. 

Yah, Wood hired Accorsi and then Quinn, so I don't see how people criticize his hiring. He was hired for the business side, and he's qualified there. The fact that he's comfortable with Martha is not a negative. He's not qualified to handle football decisions and hasn't tried to. Who knows if Quinn will turn into a good GM or not, but I think its hard to call him a bad hire. 

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19 minutes ago, hardyaf said:

This is largely nonsense. Who exactly are Martha's people? Wood? The guy who has said he isn't running the football side? The lions have done everything that the fans wanted. Whether or not it works, nobody knows. Quinn might totally suck. But lets not pretend Martha isn't doing what we all asked for. 

1) She brought in outside experts to help find someone to give total football control to. They recommended Quinn. We hired him. 

2) They fired pretty much everyone involved with the Mayhew/Millen Regime

Now if you want, you can pretend that Martha demanded Caldwell/Austin/Cooter were kept, but frankly you have no evidence that that is true, wheras they have publicly stated Quinn is in charge. I am wondering, since you think Martha is too involved, what exactly has she done in running the team, football wise?

Wood is one of them, yes. And sure, he isn't running the football side but he also admitted HE WASN'T QUALIFIED TO RUN THE BUSINESS SIDE OF ANY TEAM. So, what does that mean? Martha hired a long-time Ford employee to a position he wasn't qualified for...don't you think that shows she is extremely comfortable hiring "her" people and putting her influence onto the team?

And lets be honest here for a second guys. This is the scenario we have going on right now...

Martha Ford (billionaire, owner of the team...boss of everyone involved with the Lions organization who we know has at least some loyalty in hiring an unqualified Wood into an executive position within the team) hires a brand new General Manager and then tells him (and the public) that she "loves" Jim Caldwell. Put yourself in his position...or ****, change the scenario to your own job. If your boss (who is a billionaire, highly public figure) tasked you with firing multiple employees then said that she really, really "loves" a certain employee are you going to go against your billionaire boss who is already shown to be loyal (and quick to fire those who she isn't loyal to)? If you guys think her public outcry of "love" has no bearing on Quin keeping Caldwell you are all disillusioned and not looking at this from Quin's point of view.

Come on now, if you take any bit of time to actually think about this scenario you will end up at the same place. Quin wasn't going to risk ostracizing himself with his new owner and kept "her guy" knowing that if things don't work he can just blame it on it being "her" guy and starting over new next year, to the detriment of the team who now has to learn a new scheme with JBC and then another new scheme (offense and defense) next year.

I also think that during any interviews if a candidate came in to interview with the worst franchise in the history of the NFL (or atleast 50+ years) and heard "well, you can pick whatever coach you want....BUT...I really, really love Caldwell" would be a huge red flag. Guys like Wolf, Tobin, and DeCosta might have decided right then and there the job wasn't for them, and I wouldn't blame them.

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14 minutes ago, EchO said:

I never said she was running the team, I said she was influencing a first time GM. Do I think Martha Ford is the one down there in the war room selecting the draft picks? Absolutely not. Do I think she could be influencing a first time GM to keep an ineffective coach because she "loves" him? Absolutely.

I guess I see it as one of two scenarios:

1) Quin kept Caldwell because Martha Ford went on record as saying she "loves" him.

or

2) Quin on his own accord decided to keep a coach who is known throughout the league to be a poor game manager and not a good head coach (which should be apparent with him not getting another HC gig after getting fired in Indy and then him being rumored to be getting fired as the OC at Baltimore before he hired him due to the Ravens having their worst offensive season with him as the full-time OC).

 2b) If he did knowingly keep a bad HC because he saw it as a "free year" or whatever, that might actually be MORE of an indicator that he is a poor GM considering we would then have to learn a new scheme (with JBC's offense) this year and then ANOTHER new scheme next year with whoever the next HC picks as his OC.

I just don't see how ANY Lions fan can see this offseason as anything other than a huge disappointment.

# 2 is mostly just your opinion and likely not how Caldwell is viewed in NFL circles. Sure, Indy had success before he got there. They also made 1 SB in 10 years. He made the SB in 1 of the 2 seasons he coached that team with Peyton Manning. Its not like he simply did the expected. He has also made the playoffs 1 of his 2 years here and went an oh so terrible 7-9 the next season. I'm not going to kill a guy for going 18-14 in 2 years, especially when people tell me every offseason how unimpressed with our talent they are every offseason(nobody was buying our D the offseason before the 2014 season for example). He's been a HC for 5 years. He has 3 winning, playoff seasons, 1 7-9 season and a 2-14 season with one of the least talented rosters you'll ever see in the NFL, in a situation where many suspect the higher ups of the team wanted them to tank. Pretty good resume for a guy everyone seems to talk about as one of the worst coaches you'll ever see. 

Most NFL coaches are bad with clock management, as it is hard to handle so many different things on game day(there are a lot of good articles on this, its not just anecdotal or a cheap excuse), so Caldwell having the occasional issue here isn't something I'm overly concerned with. He also hired a coach to help with this specifically. which I thought was smart I did hate keeping Lombardi so long, but he was also a young, first time OC and I get why he thought he'd grow into the job. He also hired Austin and Cooter though, so I don't think we can sit here and say he's incapable of recognizing coordinator talent. I don't think Caldwell is perfect, but I think he's shown that he's plenty capable of winning in this league. A small handful or 2 of guys can say the same in this league. 

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3 minutes ago, EchO said:

Wood is one of them, yes. And sure, he isn't running the football side but he also admitted HE WASN'T QUALIFIED TO RUN THE BUSINESS SIDE OF ANY TEAM. So, what does that mean? Martha hired a long-time Ford employee to a position he wasn't qualified for...don't you think that shows she is extremely comfortable hiring "her" people and putting her influence onto the team?

And lets be honest here for a second guys. This is the scenario we have going on right now...

Martha Ford (billionaire, owner of the team...boss of everyone involved with the Lions organization who we know has at least some loyalty in hiring an unqualified Wood into an executive position within the team) hires a brand new General Manager and then tells him (and the public) that she "loves" Jim Caldwell. Put yourself in his position...or ****, change the scenario to your own job. If your boss (who is a billionaire, highly public figure) tasked you with firing multiple employees then said that she really, really "loves" a certain employee are you going to go against your billionaire boss who is already shown to be loyal (and quick to fire those who she isn't loyal to)? If you guys think her public outcry of "love" has no bearing on Quin keeping Caldwell you are all disillusioned and not looking at this from Quin's point of view.

Come on now, if you take any bit of time to actually think about this scenario you will end up at the same place. Quin wasn't going to risk ostracizing himself with his new owner and kept "her guy" knowing that if things don't work he can just blame it on it being "her" guy and starting over new next year, to the detriment of the team who now has to learn a new scheme with JBC and then another new scheme (offense and defense) next year.

I also think that during any interviews if a candidate came in to interview with the worst franchise in the history of the NFL (or atleast 50+ years) and heard "well, you can pick whatever coach you want....BUT...I really, really love Caldwell" would be a huge red flag. Guys like Wolf, Tobin, and DeCosta might have decided right then and there the job wasn't for them, and I wouldn't blame them.

OH BS. Its year one of a 5 year contract. Quinn had absolutely nothing to fear by firing the coach and if anything was expected to hire his own guy. The players by all reports gave overwhelmingly positive reviews of Caldwell(players aren't going to support a guy in private meetings with the GM if they don't think he's going to help them win in this league) and we had 2 coordinators that were considered quite positive. and again, Caldwell was 18-14 in 2 years here. None of that points to a guy who was likely to be fired by ANYONE. What a crock of speculative ****

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1 minute ago, EchO said:

Wood is one of them, yes. And sure, he isn't running the football side but he also admitted HE WASN'T QUALIFIED TO RUN ANY TEAM. So, what does that mean? Martha hired a long-time Ford employee to a position he wasn't qualified for...don't you think that shows she is extremely comfortable hiring "her" people and putting her influence onto the team?

And lets be honest here for a second guys. This is the scenario we have going on right now...

Martha Ford (billionaire, owner of the team...boss of everyone involved with the Lions organization who we know has at least some loyalty in hiring an unqualified Wood into an executive position within the team) hires a brand new General Manager and then tells him (and the public) that she "loves" Jim Caldwell. Put yourself in his position...or ****, change the scenario to your own job. If your boss (who is a billionaire, highly public figure) tasked you with putting together a team for some project and then said that she really, really "loves" a certain employee are you going to go against your billionaire boss who is already shown to be loyal (and quick to fire those who she isn't loyal to)? If you guys think her public outcry of "love" has no bearing on Quin keeping Caldwell you are all disillusioned and not looking at this from Quin's point of view.

Come on now, if you take any bit of time to actually think about this scenario you will end up at the same place. Quin wasn't going to risk ostracizing himself with his new owner and kept "her guy" knowing that if things don't work he can just blame it on it being "her" guy and starting over new next year, to the detriment of the team who now has to learn a new scheme with JBC and then another new scheme (offense and defense) next year.

I also think that during any interviews if a candidate came in to interview with the worst franchise in the history of the NFL (or atleast 50+ years) and heard "well, you can pick whatever coach you want....BUT...I really, really love Caldwell" would be a huge red flag. Guys like Wolf, Tobin, and DeCosta might have decided right then and there the job wasn't for them, and I wouldn't blame them.

1) So nothing but speculation? I am 100% sure Martha would rather the lions wins than have Caldwell. I'm also sure the team owner would say she likes the coach, regardless of who it is. That's what owners do. They try to instill confidence in their fans. They need to sell tickets.

2) Enough with the Wood quote. Most team presidents aren't qualified to run any team but the one they run. Was Jonathan Kraft qualified to run any team other than the patriots? How about Art Rooney and the Steelers? Almost all team presidents are marketing/financial people who have connections to the owner of the franchise they are president of. All you are doing is taking an honest quote out of context. 

3) Who are these other people that are "Martha's guys"? You seem to be in the know. I'm looking for something linking her to anyone on football side.

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I'm not hot on the team this season like most but the last couple of pages of this thread shows how tortured this fanbase truly is.  You would think that the Quinn era is a failure already based on the tone of some of these posts. 

As I said, I understand the skepticism going into this season but lets pump the brakes on all the Quinn is a puppet etc. talk.  He's 0-0 right now, nothing more nothing less.

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1 minute ago, hardyaf said:

1) So nothing but speculation? I am 100% sure Martha would rather the lions wins than have Caldwell. I'm also sure the team owner would say she likes the coach, regardless of who it is. That's what owners do. They try to instill confidence in their fans. They need to sell tickets.

2) Enough with the Wood quote. Most team presidents aren't qualified to run any team but the one they run. Was Jonathan Kraft qualified to run any team other than the patriots? How about Art Rooney and the Steelers? Almost all team presidents are marketing/financial people who have connections to the owner of the franchise they are president of. All you are doing is taking an honest quote out of context. 

3) Who are these other people that are "Martha's guys"? You seem to be in the know. I'm looking for something linking her to anyone on football side.

For the record, I think Caldwell is probably the worst head coach in the NFL. That doesn't mean I also think Martha mandated he stays. There is simply nothing to support that.

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6 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

OH BS. Its year one of a 5 year contract. Quinn had absolutely nothing to fear by firing the coach and if anything was expected to hire his own guy. The players by all reports gave overwhelmingly positive reviews of Caldwell(players aren't going to support a guy in private meetings with the GM if they don't think he's going to help them win in this league) and we had 2 coordinators that were considered quite positive. and again, Caldwell was 18-14 in 2 years here. None of that points to a guy who was likely to be fired by ANYONE. What a crock of speculative ****

I am honestly surprised you feel this way. How did Mayhew being under contract save him from being fired? Oh...it didn't? Well when Schwartz signed that contract extension at the end of 2012 it surly meant he was going to be kept around for the duration or AT LEAST a few years...wait, it didn't...he was fired the very next year? You mean to tell me that coaches and general managers get fired all the time even while under contracts...stop.

We both know executives contracts mean nothing, let's not pretend they do.

Here might be a better question Nas...do you truly, in your heart of hearts believe Caldwell is a good coach? I won't even argue the fact that Austin is a great DC, but is it worth keeping Caldwell around just for Austin (when Austin has been getting interviewed all over the place)? And sure, JBC looked GREAT in comparison, but lets see what exactly happens with the offense over a full season.

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17 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I'm not hot on the team this season like most but the last couple of pages of this thread shows how tortured this fanbase truly is.  You would think that the Quinn era is a failure already based on the tone of some of these posts.  As I said, I understand the skepticism going into this season but lets pump the brakes on all the Quinn is a puppet etc. talk.  He's 0-0 right now, nothing more nothing less.

I don't think Quin is a failure by any stretch (although I'm not impressed with this offseason). I just hate the decision to keep Caldwell (whether that comes from Martha or by his own fruition). I don't see in any way, shape, or form how keeping a bad coach and having to learn a new offense scheme is a good idea when IMO a new GM should come in and put HIS people in place and learn the new schemes right away.

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Just now, EchO said:

I am honestly surprised you feel this way. How did Mayhew being under contract save him from being fired? Oh...it didn't? Well when Schwartz signed that contract extension at the end of 2012 it surly meant he was going to be kept around for the duration or AT LEAST a few years...wait, it didn't...he was fired the very next year? You mean to tell me that coaches and general managers get fired all the time even while under contracts...stop.

We both know executives contracts mean nothing, let's not pretend they do.

Here might be a better question Nas...do you truly, in your heart of hearts believe Caldwell is a good coach? I won't even argue the fact that Austin is a great DC, but is it worth keeping Caldwell around just for Austin (when Austin has been getting interviewed all over the place)? And sure, JBC looked GREAT in comparison, but lets see what exactly happens with the offense over a full season.

Oh Get out of here. What nonsensical way to twist my words. They didn't bring Quinn in after outsourcing a large search for him and signing him long term in order to fire him after one year for firing the coach the owner was friend with and I'm sure you know that despite the disingenuous nonsense you typed above. 

and yes, of course we need to see what Cooter does over a full season. Him and Stafford are under a lot of pressure to be very good if not great. I've never backed down from that. 

Yes, I believe Caldwell is a good coach. The man has a .550 winning percentage in the NFL despite a 2-14 season on his record that Belichick couldn't have saved. 

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19 minutes ago, hardyaf said:

1) So nothing but speculation? I am 100% sure Martha would rather the lions wins than have Caldwell. I'm also sure the team owner would say she likes the coach, regardless of who it is. That's what owners do. They try to instill confidence in their fans. They need to sell tickets.

2) Enough with the Wood quote. Most team presidents aren't qualified to run any team but the one they run. Was Jonathan Kraft qualified to run any team other than the patriots? How about Art Rooney and the Steelers? Almost all team presidents are marketing/financial people who have connections to the owner of the franchise they are president of. All you are doing is taking an honest quote out of context. 

3) Who are these other people that are "Martha's guys"? You seem to be in the know. I'm looking for something linking her to anyone on football side.

Owners say that don't like their coaches or at least publicly disagree with them all the time. Case in point, the Savior in Ann Arbor and the 49ers owner...or **** the 49ers owner and Chip Kelly just got in a public disagreement about Kaepernick. There is no precedent that a owner must praise a coach after the entire front office who hired him got fired. They can equally sell tickets by showing how they are purging the team of poor management and coaching...just saying. Your premise that the owner must stand behind coaching staff and front office for the sake of fans and ticket sales is strictly wrong. By that logic, no one would ever get fired...obviously not the case.

All I am doing with the Wood quote is showing that Martha has no issue hiring her people into executive roles. I agree that many are financial and/or marketing people. But the fact of the matter is, and remains, should could have hired someone with a modicum of experience (at any level of franchise/sports/team management) and yet she instead choose her guy who has no experience...if nothing else it proves her loyalty to those she "loves" or otherwise trusts even if they aren't the most qualified for the job.

Wood and Caldwell. The president and the coach who was able to avoid the purge and then who she publicly said she "loved" right after hiring a brand new general manager. Aside from that, I have specifically said that I don't think she is in the war room picking talent. But that her public love of Caldwell MIGHT (speculation alert!) have limited GM candidates and forced her young, brand new general managers hand into keeping Caldwell to the ultimate detriment of the team.

If you don't agree with any of this, that is fine. I'm not stating any opinion as fact and I have explained myself to the very best of my ability.

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26 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

Oh Get out of here. What nonsensical way to twist my words. They didn't bring Quinn in after outsourcing a large search for him and signing him long term in order to fire him after one year for firing the coach the owner was friend with and I'm sure you know that despite the disingenuous nonsense you typed above. 

and yes, of course we need to see what Cooter does over a full season. Him and Stafford are under a lot of pressure to be very good if not great. I've never backed down from that. 

Yes, I believe Caldwell is a good coach. The man has a .550 winning percentage in the NFL despite a 2-14 season on his record that Belichick couldn't have saved. 

I'm not saying, nor have ever said, that they brought Quin in to fire him after one year. I said, and I still stand behind that there would definitely be some pressure on a young, new GM to keep the coach that the billionaire owner publicly "loved." You said that he would have no fear of becoming a pariah and falling out of favor with the billionaire, outspoken, owner because of a contract and I pointed out that a contract can be terminated at any time with no real cost to the franchise.

The few million they lose will be nothing in compared with what the money-printing NFL franchise is going to make. So again, I wholeheartedly believe that there would have definitely been pressure on Quin to fall in line. You bringing up contracts doesn't nullify that argument at all. They could, just as easily outsource another search next year without batting an eye, you know that, I know that.

I couldn't disagree more with Caldwell, but that is nothing but opinions and as we have come to find on many occasions, you and I have different opinions. And while it isn't perfect, I do have the benefit of every paid journalist on my side.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000671714 (#21)
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/nfl-head-coach-rankings-bill-belichick (#25)
http://www.metro.us/sports/2016-nfl-head-coach-power-rankings-bill-belichick-still-reigns-supreme/zsJpbn---6fGw7qcLe3HQM/ (#18)

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/60776/57/nfls-best-coaches-2016?pg=3 (#24)

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-the-nfl-coaches-1-32-no-easy-choices-except-at-no-1/ (#23)

And keep in mind, all rookie head coaches are listed near or at the bottom due to lack of sample size...so that is six rookie head coaches below him in every poll...so that would place him at:

#21 out of 26

#25 out of 26

#18 out of 26

#24 out of 26

#23 out of 26

That puts him at an average ranking of #22 out of 26 non-rookie head coaches, ouch.

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